EA Zone Running Challenge to YOU!!

[kjcheezhead]

@ Lbz

Nice videos. When you were discussing the Madden blocking, you mentioned that you didn't feel like there is a cutback lane and I agree. The engaged players just don't move. They should be flowing in the direction of the play as they fight to block/break their blocks and that would give that potential for a cut back play.

One other thing I believe would help is they need to get rid of that animation where the defenders simply throw their blockers away. It occurs at the 5:00 mark by the olb you are highlighting(and also by the wr at 3:40). The te goes to make the block and then gets tossed to the side and the defender basically stays in the same position he was in when the block started. It's impossible to read and looks like the te was paid to take a dive. The defender needs to commit to the outside/inside to get past that block in order to have the play flow realsitically or allow for that cutback opportunity, imo.

[LBzrule]

Quote: Originally Posted by kjcheezhead

@ Lbz Nice videos. When you were discussing the Madden blocking, you mentioned that you didn't feel like there is a cutback lane and I agree. The engaged players just don't move. They should be flowing in the direction of the play as they fight to block/break their blocks and that would give that potential for a cut back play. One other thing I believe would help is they need to get rid of that animation where the defenders simply throw their blockers away. It occurs at the 5:00 mark by the olb you are highlighting(and also by the wr at 3:40). The te goes to make the block and then gets tossed to the side and the defender basically stays in the same position he was in when the block started. It's impossible to read and looks like the te was paid to take a dive. The defender needs to commit to the outside/inside to get past that block in order to have the play flow realsitically or allow for that cutback opportunity, imo.

I think this is also another reason why the DL does not need to be tied to the OL. That's why it looks more authentic in 2k8 IMO. Notice in Madden 12 you can call slant right/slant left and on running plays the DL does not slant. They just stand straight up and allow the OL to get into their chests. No one fires off the football and stays low until contact. It's like they are controlled by the OL.

[Tyrant8RDFL]

Great information here LB

I don't recall where I read this , but I saw something that was stated that in Madden 14 they will work on the line play aspect.

This is one area that needs a ton of time put into it. This area is so deep and technical that it requires a special team to really focus on it. Hopefully they will gather your presentation here, and utilze it in structuring the line play in Madden 14.

I can't wait to see your presentation in pass blocking. When will it be available?

[Illustrator76]

The whole technique of EA's zone blocking is just wrong. Offensive Linemen in a zone blocking scheme rely more upon blocking defenders at angles to create movement so that the RB can have cutback lanes. Zone blocking Linemen normally don't just block straight up on the defender in front of them, which is what happens too often in Madden. Zone blocking linemen tend to be lighter (high 290's, low 300's) and more mobile than "traditional" Offensive Linemen, so that they can move well laterally to create angles, block their "zone" and then quickly take care of the 2nd level defenders (Linebackers and Safeties). This brings me to another point, in that the uncovered Offensive Linemen (Guards especially) in Madden need to look to block to a designated SPOT in the defensive backfield and either double-team a Defensive Lineman in their "zone" or look to disengage and block the next defender that enters their zone. There seems to be way too much "blocking until the defender sheds" going on in Madden, instead of simply getting the Lineman moving in the direction you want them to and then looking for your next "assignment". This is further complicated by the fact that Offensive Linemen in Madden (in general) don't look to drive anybody backwards off the ball or even sideways in the run game, again, the Linemen simply stand in place and wait for the Defensive Lineman or Linebacker to "shed the block". This essentially blows up the entire zone running scheme/play before it can even get started.

All of this also reminds me of that fact that if you have a team that is mostly zone blocking based for their run game (Houston Texans for example), you should NOT be able to have tons of success by building your team with the incorrect O-Line pieces. In other words, putting guys like Leonard Davis, Phil Loadholt and Bryant McKinnie on your line should make your zone running scheme mostly INEFFECTIVE due to the fact that these guys are slow and immobile. They are built more for a power drive blocking running scheme, not a zone blocking scheme. EA either needs to make a "zone blocking" rating for each Offensive Lineman, or make their speed and agility ratings matter a whole lot more. This is of course after they actually fix the eitire zone blocking scheme first.

[LBzrule]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tyrant8RDFL

Great information here LB I don't recall where I read this , but I saw something that was stated that in Madden 14 they will work on the line play aspect. This is one area that needs a ton of time put into it. This area is so deep and technical that it requires a special team to really focus on it. Hopefully they will gather your presentation here, and utilze it in structuring the line play in Madden 14. I can't wait to see your presentation in pass blocking. When will it be available?

I will do pass blocking following next week.

[LBzrule]

Quote: Originally Posted by Illustrator76

The whole technique of EA's zone blocking is just wrong. Offensive Linemen in a zone blocking scheme rely more upon blocking defenders at angles to create movement so that the RB can have cutback lanes. Zone blocking Linemen normally don't just block straight up on the defender in front of them, which is what happens too often in Madden. Zone blocking linemen tend to be lighter (high 290's, low 300's) and more mobile than "traditional" Offensive Linemen, so that they can move well laterally to create angles, block their "zone" and then quickly take care of the 2nd level defenders (Linebackers and Safeties). This brings me to another point, in that the uncovered Offensive Linemen (Guards especially) in Madden need to look to block to a designated SPOT in the defensive backfield and either double-team a Defensive Lineman in their "zone" or look to disengage and block the next defender that enters their zone. There seems to be way too much "blocking until the defender sheds" going on in Madden, instead of simply getting the Lineman moving in the direction you want them to and then looking for your next "assignment". This is further complicated by the fact that Offensive Linemen in Madden (in general) don't look to drive anybody backwards off the ball or even sideways in the run game, again, the Linemen simply stand in place and wait for the Defensive Lineman or Linebacker to "shed the block". This essentially blows up the entire zone running scheme/play before it can even get started. All of this also reminds me of that fact that if you have a team that is mostly zone blocking based for their run game (Houston Texans for example), you should NOT be able to have tons of success by building your team with the incorrect O-Line pieces. In other words, putting guys like Leonard Davis, Phil Loadholt and Bryant McKinnie on your line should make your zone running scheme mostly INEFFECTIVE due to the fact that these guys are slow and immobile. They are built more for a power drive blocking running scheme, not a zone blocking scheme. EA either needs to make a "zone blocking" rating for each Offensive Lineman, or make their speed and agility ratings matter a whole lot more. This is of course after they actually fix the eitire zone blocking scheme first.

OMG this is super important right here. In my league last year, a lot of people used the Texans playbook. One guy that had the Bengals, who did not have the line for zone blocking was very successful running the zone plays. Then he would turn right around and have success running dives, Iso and Counters too. I think that's kinda lame. If your line is built for zone blocking and you have a great deal of pretty light guys that are mobile and their primary forte is to get to and press and seal the edge, then zone is the type of blocking scheme your team should be more successful running.

If you have some big guys that have a little agility you are in luck. You can run Inside Zone NOT outside, along with Iso's, Leads, Dives. The problem will be counters. Just looking at the Ravens OL for instance, they can run Inside Zone, Iso's, Leads, Tosses to the RIGHT side, Counters with the RG Yanda. If Osemele or Reid win the LG spot, counters with the LG are gonna be very difficult IMO. If Gradkowski wins it then counters shouldn't be a problem. This is a great point about OL's are built to run certain things. No OL is a jack of all trades OL and for those that are treated as such, they probably aren't that good unless you are playing Madden hah.

[Illustrator76]

Quote: Originally Posted by LBzrule

OMG this is super important right here. In my league last year, a lot of people used the Texans playbook. One guy that had the Bengals, who did not have the line for zone blocking was very successful running the zone plays. Then he would turn right around and have success running dives, Iso and Counters too. I think that's kinda lame. If your line is built for zone blocking and you have a great deal of pretty light guys that are mobile and their primary forte is to get to and press and seal the edge, then zone is the type of blocking scheme your team should be more successful running. If you have some big guys that have a little agility you are in luck. You can run Inside Zone NOT outside, along with Iso's, Leads, Dives. The problem will be counters. Just looking at the Ravens OL for instance, they can run Inside Zone, Iso's, Leads, Tosses to the RIGHT side, Counters with the RG Yanda. If Osemele or Reid win the LG spot, counters with the LG are gonna be very difficult IMO. If Gradkowski wins it then counters shouldn't be a problem. This is a great point about OL's are built to run certain things. No OL is a jack of all trades OL and for those that are treated as such, they probably aren't that good unless you are playing Madden hah.

Yeah man, Madden is too much of a "one size fits all" in too many areas. You build a team a certain way, or have players with certain ratings, then your play style, scheme, etc... needs to be based around those factors. As it stands right now, this simply isn't the case in many areas of Madden, as ratings, weight, agility, etc... simply do not seem to matter very much, if at all. I know a guy who literally took a 65 overall, terrible hands, average route-running Darius Heyward Bey and made him a 1,600+ yard receiver in his Online Franchise (no progression), how the hell does that happen? Unfortunately, O-Linemen performance based off of scheme is no different, and doesn't really have an impact either.

[kjcheezhead]

I wonder how they really rate offensive lineman in the first place to be honest. I have a list of lineman ratings right here...


Again, I'm not a coach and never played at any major level, but these ratings just seem off to me in the way you are describing. The top 6 guys are all +90 in pass blocking, run blocking, pass block strength, run block strength, pass block footwork and run block footwork. Madden actually does have them to be jack of all trades.

Another thing I notice is only 3 of the top ten are left tackles. Shouldn't the LT be the more dominant position? Does Jeff Saturday belong at 6th best olineman in the game?



As far as breaking down pass blocking. I think there are 3 important areas to address. First is the most obvious, double team blocking. Second, how to get 1/2 and 1/4 slides into the game without it becoming the same as how the dline crashes now. Finally, adding stunts and twists to the presnap options on defense since tiered line play seems impossible to get in without a complete rewrite.