What do you guys think about this sort of "lead passing" feature for Madden?

[Cnada]

I coulnt understand from the webcast or preview how lead passing is any different to what we have now....lead passing ??

We can already use the L stick to put it where we want. Although to be fair apart from up in the air when throwing in the middle of the field or away from the covering cb i rarely use it.

Anyone use down on a curl? never seemed to work for me...

Much like the stiff arm but i digress

[baller7345]

Quote: Originally Posted by Cnada

I coulnt understand from the webcast or preview how lead passing is any different to what we have now....lead passing ?? We can already use the L stick to put it where we want. Although to be fair apart from up in the air when throwing in the middle of the field or away from the covering cb i rarely use it. Anyone use down on a curl? never seemed to work for me... Much like the stiff arm but i digress

I use down on curls from time to time mostly when there is an elite DB on him. With Rodgers it throws it low enough for it to be almost impossible for the defender to make a play while high enough that Jennings and Nelson can scoop it right off the ground with the falling catch animation.

I also use the regular precision pass system extensively when running plays like Z Spot, Corner Strike, PA Dagger, Slot Outs, Stick, etc. On plays like Z Spot it comes in handy at making sure you keep the ball away from a man defender when you throw the spot route and it allows you to throw the corner route open against cover 2 if you throw it down and towards the sidelines or sometimes just towards the sidelines. On plays like Stick and Slot Outs where there is a quick out route I tend to lead towards the side lines or down and towards the sidelines to allow myself to go get the ball while keeping the defender out of the plays. You can do similar things with deep outs and plays like corner strike on the C corner routes. You can use towards the sideline lead passes on streaks to help trigger the twirling jump animation though nobody ever seems to want to do that one because its so much easier to bambi jump and catch the ball over the most elite db's in the game.

As for how this new system differs from what we have now I think it is just giving us more control with all the new catch points they have added for WR's. I know they are allowing back shoulder fades for instance which wasn't possible with the old system so perhaps by utilizing the new catch point and catch animations you can place it with more precision.

[tsp120]

Quote: Originally Posted by matthawk

Madden 13s lead passing sounds just like 2ks maximum passing, which is a good thing.

NFL2K5's maximum passing was great. All Madden needs to do is mimic how that was implemented and they'll be fine. Only took them 8 years to get this done eh?

[Only1LT]

Quote: Originally Posted by mrprice33

The ability to move the character in order to adjust the camera (along with aggressive auto aim) make shooting in an FPS much easier than this proposed system. I like the idea of throwing to a spot on the field. Couldn't that be done another way? A more aggressive route-based passing system, perhaps? Maybe for some routes when you hit the button to pass it they automatically throw it to a specific spot on the field (within a range based on ratings) and it's up to you to read and time the route. As I've said in other threads, the throw distance on the sticks isn't good enough to have certain things mapped to it. Imagine going from a receiver on the right sideline all the way to a receiver on the left. In reality, that's a pretty quick decision by the qb. How would that work using the sticks? How would you make sure you the user doesn't over/under shoot it? How long would it take? This would be an ideal system for madden PC, but just like how console FPS make concessions to the controller, so too would Tiburon. Look at what happened with Elite. They tried to do 1 to 1 control, and it failed miserably. Usability and fun should be priority #1.

Most FPS don't have "aggressive auto aim." COD does, but I'll leave that alone lol. In any event, auto aim can be turned off in just about every shooter. Regardless, it isn't like it aims for you. It will right your aim when you are close enough to the target to compensate for the fact that an analog stick is less precise than a mouse, but if you can't aim, auto aim won't help you much.

I'm not opposed to a strict route based passing system. That would work and be easier to implement, and, likewise, easier for those that hate change to adapt to, but if the whole point of this thread is to discuss ways of actually throwing the ball where you want to, a route based passing system, regardless of how strict, still doesn't provide this function. You are trading throwing at a receiver and being able to adjust the ball's trajectory around him slightly, for throwing to a specific point on the field, determined by route, and being able to adjust the ball's trajectory around it slightly. It's the same mechanic. Better in some ways, but still the same.

I find the analog sticks just fine. As good as a mouse? No, but definitely more than capable. Just like a FPS has acceleration on the axes, you could have the same thing in a Football. In fact, it was in a Football game. John Elway's QB. In the arcade, the game was made by a company called Tradewest if memory serves me. This was in the early to mid 80's so I could be wrong (too lazy to look it up right now lol). They made sports games that had a joystick on the left and a small analog stick on the right. For john Elway, it was used for controlling a cursor that you could move all over the field which determined the area that the ball went to (imagine that). For Baseball, it controlled a cursor that you moved around to determine pitch location and velocity, as well as a batting cursor when batting, that determined hit location and strength of swing.

In each game, for every aspect that it controlled, it worked flawlessly. This is before there was the proliferation of FPS that we see today. Before there was a such thing as a FPS in fact. I always find it strange that when ever I bring up this suggested mechanic, that in this day and age when everyone and their grandma plays FPS, and has done so for many years now, not only that, but considering that almost every genre of games controls like a FPS now whether that be 3rd Person Shooter, adventure game, flight sim, RPG, etc..., that people still question whether this is possible in a Football game, when it worked FLAWLESSLY in a Football and Baseball game made almost 30yrs ago, when no other games controlled this way and people were most definitely not used to it. It boggles my mind.

As for making sure a user doesn't over or undershoot the receiver, why would I do that lol? That's the whole point. You have to actually master the control of being able to put the ball where you want under pressure. That's what real live QBs do. If you must, add auto aim, but it better be optional, cause I would never use it.

There is just something about people's attachment to doing things status quo in Football games, that doesn't allow them to be objective to anything that is remotely different. Yet those same people embrace the same type of change in every other genre of gaming.

Fascinating.

[Tyrant8RDFL]

Quote: Originally Posted by Moegames

Ok i am going to try and explain this as best as i can. I am really looking forward to M13's better lead passing technology but one thing that struck me fairly instantly when i first heard of what they were doing to allow us to toss a ball out further so the WR can run to the ball or lead the WR a bit better with leading our passes to our WR's. Well i was thinking what if they actually implemented a cross-hair of sorts? What i mean is this.. Say you got 3 WR's out there..each WR representing a button on your controller like how it is now..but when you press the corresponding WR button..the camera zooms in a tiny bit more, locks on to that WR but ALSO a on-screen cross-hair suddenly appears allowing us control the cross-hair ahead, left, right or underneath the WR which gives us a much better perspective on exactly where we are leading the ball to the WR and actually giving us better feel of leading a pass. Maybe it would be good as an option or toggle off/on feature..hmmm Here is an example of what i mean with a different game..below is the latest Ace Combat game..in dogfight mode..the camera angle zooms up a bit more when you go into dogfight mode but more importantly...the camera locks on to the enemy aircraft which gives you total control to the small circle to lead your fire ..in other words..in the pic below...you see the red box which is representing the camera locked onto the enemy fighter...next you see a small circle a tad above the enemy craft (at 1 o'clock) which this small circle represents your fire trajectory...so you can over aim, under aim or aim out to the right or left of the enemy craft so that your basically leading your fire because you know the enemy craft will run into it..which basically is leading your fire just like what im am getting at for Madden with leading your passes. So i am just wondering what you guys thought about this..having a visible "X" or "Target Icon" visible so that we have a clearer sense of where we are leading the pass to our WR's.... any thoughts? Right now we see nothing ..so maybe adding this tiny bit of feature would greatly give off a better sense of location and momentum? I dont know..just figured i would shoot this across to you guys. Im not saying it needs to work exactly as i explained but something similar in nature that would work to give us a better feel for placing the ball in leading a pass... Peace

I love options so yes I would not mind such a system. My only question to you and everyone else that ilkes the idea , and NFL Fever's lead and Pass.

Where does the accuracy of the QB come into play if all the passes you are throwing go right to the marker?

This is why I would like it as a option but not the default setup. I can't see how accuracy rating for the Qb would come into play, if every pass you throw goes right to the marker. I can see arm strength being a factor.

This would mean every Qb has the same accuracy when they are user controlled.

[Only1LT]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tyrant8RDFL

I love options so yes I would not mind such a system. My only question to you and everyone else that ilkes the idea , and NFL Fever's lead and Pass. Where does the accuracy of the QB come into play if all the passes you are throwing go right to the marker? This is why I would like it as a option but not the default setup. I can't see how accuracy rating for the Qb would come into play, if every pass you throw goes right to the marker. I can see arm strength being a factor. This would mean every Qb has the same accuracy when they are user controlled.

Never played Fever, so I don't know if accuracy counted or not, but you could easily tie accuracy to a cursor system.

The middle of the cursor is bulls eye. You have 100% accuracy as a QB and you are not pressured, your feet are set, looking at receiver, you aren't rattled, what ever else you want to add, and your pass goes to bulls eye. Any of those factors change and the pass is further off bulls eye to varying degrees based on what ever algorithm the developer wants to use.

This is how the game works now. You don't see the cursor, and you can't control it, but the pass has an intended spot and factors built into the game, from accuracy, to pressure, to the AI straight up cheating, all determine whether the ball goes to that spot or are off the mark.

With a cursor it would be no different other than that you can see the cursor and manipulate it freely.

[aussiepats89]

I've just had a quick skim over this & haven't seen this exact thing mentioned yet so I'll briefly explain it now since I'm too lazy to go into major detail. How would you feel about Madden going to a "FIFA Style" of passing system?

Each face button has a different role & could be assigned to a different type of pass (bullet, touch, loft etc) and there's the power meter to determine how far you can throw it etc, aiming could be done with the left stick & QB avoidance on the right to move in the pocket. It would have a few kinks like throwing on the run may be tricky but it's hardly a foolproof, developed idea.

[Tyrant8RDFL]

Quote: Originally Posted by Only1LT

Never played Fever, so I don't know if accuracy counted or not, but you could easily tie accuracy to a cursor system. The middle of the cursor is bulls eye. You have 100% accuracy as a QB and you are not pressured, your feet are set, looking at receiver, you aren't rattled, what ever else you want to add, and your pass goes to bulls eye. Any of those factors change and the pass is further off bulls eye to varying degrees based on what ever algorithm the developer wants to use. This is how the game works now. You don't see the cursor, and you can't control it, but the pass has an intended spot and factors built into the game, from accuracy, to pressure, to the AI straight up cheating, all determine whether the ball goes to that spot or are off the mark. With a cursor it would be no different other than that you can see the cursor and manipulate it freely.

That works, and what still needs to be factored is that not all Qb's are accurate because their feet are set. As long as the accuracy of the Qb is still a factor I'm good, and reflected correctly according to the Qb accuracy towards the marker, with feet set or not.

That was my biggest concern if its all about the ball hitting where you placed the marker than accuracy was not going to be a factor, and that would be a crime

Its very important that various options are given to play the Qb position. Lets just take MLB the show for example. They did not offer just one way of hitting the ball. The offeerd 4 various methods, and the same with pitching. That is how you cater to a larger fan base.

EA should do the same with the Qb position. Offer various ways to play the game as a QB. At this time we should have had a normal interface what is about to be offered in Madden 13, and the vision cone. Then add the Fever sytle.

Madden needs to keep pilling on the features.