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Pass Rush Glitch??? URGENT!!!

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Old 05-02-2012, 05:06 PM   #1
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Pass Rush Glitch??? URGENT!!!

I think I may have solved the defensive end pass rush problem. I play with the Colts and everyone knows that rushing with Freeney and Mathis is completely ineffective. I thought this was because they did not have block shedding ability. After switching their defense to a 3-4 and moving them both to OLB I noticed that they still got no rush. Eventually I started drafting OLB's from the game and they were beasts coming off the edge. So what is the difference? The OLB's that I drafted did not have any pass rush moves. I did an experiment and turned off all of their pass rush move traits. And low and behold! Edge pressure from elite outside rushers. I think that the pass rush moves make defensive ends get caught in the patty cake animation and then they never get any pressure. If this has been a problem for you try editing your favorite DE's traits to have no pass rush moves. This is also probably why people that have 3-4 teams as their team of choice see no problem with the edge pressure. So try this out and tell me what your results are. If you want pressure from your ends turn off all of their pass rush move traits. NOTE: anyone that can get into contact with EA please let them know before NCAA 13 and Madden 13 are released.
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Old 05-02-2012, 05:26 PM   #2
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Re: Pass Rush Glitch??? URGENT!!!

Video please.

Their traits are set to "No" for all traits?

Interesting.

I know that with user control I can get pressure with freeny, but not if he is controlled by the AI while I am a linebacker, or mathis or what ever.
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Old 05-02-2012, 06:01 PM   #3
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Re: Pass Rush Glitch??? URGENT!!!

i see guys like JPP & Osi just absolutely dominating in games.

Video of the pass rush issue would be good to see - pgatiher you have one?
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Old 05-02-2012, 06:14 PM   #4
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Re: Pass Rush Glitch??? URGENT!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgibs7
i see guys like JPP & Osi just absolutely dominating in games.

Video of the pass rush issue would be good to see - pgatiher you have one?
The main issue is that teams that more or less rely on a 4 man rush can't actually play like that in Madden unless someone users the DL. It doesn't help that the basic coverages tend too be entirely to easy to find holes in though that problem can be lessened by disguising your coverages. However most of the time you have to force your opponent to sit in the pocket for well over 3 seconds (sometimes it takes 5-7 seconds) for the most elite lines to make an impact. On very rare circumstances you get a great pass rush but its so rare that you can't play the game like an nfl team would play where they blitz less than 50% of the time and most teams blitz less than 40% of the time.

This makes it harder to run a tampa 2 scheme as well as running a genuine 4-3 scheme (without using the crash and reblitz strategy) since you now have to blitz out of a cover 2 look if you want to keep your tampa 2 consistent and due to how the cover 2 fire zone blitzes work in the game it is going to leave much larger holes than your cover 3 fire zone blitzes.

Now if you run a 2-4-5/3-4 zone blitzing scheme (Dick Lebeau and Dom Capers) then you can generate plenty of sacks though rushing 4 is largely ineffective. This means you are stuck using the standard 3 deep 3 under fire zone blitz (unless you want to start using 3 and 4 man edge pressures and A gap pressures which as you know most sim players frown on those for obvious reasons) which is perfectly fine if the fire zone coverage played correctly. The two outside hook zones are supposed to cover the seams then go to the flats but instead they jump out to the outside shoulder of the slot WR's and TE's which leaves the seams wide open, they simply don't cover properly which defeats the purpose of using a fire zone strategy which is supposed to be a fairly conservative and safe form of blitzing due to the 3 deep coverage.

Last edited by baller7345; 05-02-2012 at 06:16 PM.
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Old 05-02-2012, 07:09 PM   #5
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Re: Pass Rush Glitch??? URGENT!!!

Very interesting. Looking forward to giving it a try. What kind of animations are you seeing? Are you seeing the ends lowering their shoulders and riding the takles around the pocket?
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Old 05-02-2012, 07:14 PM   #6
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Re: Pass Rush Glitch??? URGENT!!!

I'd be interested in confirmation of this point. I can say definitively that removing the pass rush trait does not neuter the pass rush. In my early efforts to nerd the DT pass rush, one of my first experiments was to edit out all of their pass rush traits. That didn't work and they generated pressure same as before.
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Old 05-02-2012, 07:42 PM   #7
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Re: Pass Rush Glitch??? URGENT!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by baller7345
The main issue is that teams that more or less rely on a 4 man rush can't actually play like that in Madden unless someone users the DL. It doesn't help that the basic coverages tend too be entirely to easy to find holes in though that problem can be lessened by disguising your coverages. However most of the time you have to force your opponent to sit in the pocket for well over 3 seconds (sometimes it takes 5-7 seconds) for the most elite lines to make an impact. On very rare circumstances you get a great pass rush but its so rare that you can't play the game like an nfl team would play where they blitz less than 50% of the time and most teams blitz less than 40% of the time.
I agree with you here that without crashing/reblitzing/stacking generating pressure can be difficult

This makes it harder to run a tampa 2 scheme as well as running a genuine 4-3 scheme (without using the crash and reblitz strategy) since you now have to blitz out of a cover 2 look if you want to keep your tampa 2 consistent and due to how the cover 2 fire zone blitzes work in the game it is going to leave much larger holes than your cover 3 fire zone blitzes.

Now if you run a 2-4-5/3-4 zone blitzing scheme (Dick Lebeau and Dom Capers) then you can generate plenty of sacks though rushing 4 is largely ineffective. This means you are stuck using the standard 3 deep 3 under fire zone blitz (unless you want to start using 3 and 4 man edge pressures and A gap pressures which as you know most sim players frown on those for obvious reasons) which is perfectly fine if the fire zone coverage played correctly. The two outside hook zones are supposed to cover the seams then go to the flats but instead they jump out to the outside shoulder of the slot WR's and TE's which leaves the seams wide open, they simply don't cover properly which defeats the purpose of using a fire zone strategy which is supposed to be a fairly conservative and safe form of blitzing due to the 3 deep coverage.
I actually don't understand why the "sim" players have a issue with creating overloads off the edge or generating A gap pressure. With slide protection you are able to pick up all intended pressure so I have never understood the problem here. The issue you seem to be having with the hooks playing the seem is that you don't have the hooks playing at a deep enough depth. Drop those hooks defenders closer to safety depth (or get tricky and drop your safeties into hooks pre-snap) they will protect the seam and then drop short to jump underneath routes. This is one way that I have defended slot streaks alllllll season long.

Another nice way to defend the slot is by placing a player on the LOS (think slot DBs in dime) into deep blues and then using press coverage. They will actually delay covering the slot and they do a great job at jumping whatever route is infront of them. So if you face a slot WR that drops int he deep seem the defender will follow. if he drops to the flat he will jump tot he flat for a second and then continue to his deep slot. The delay is enough to scare your opponent espicially when you setup your pressure.
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Old 05-02-2012, 08:01 PM   #8
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Re: Pass Rush Glitch??? URGENT!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgibs7
I actually don't understand why the "sim" players have a issue with creating overloads off the edge or generating A gap pressure. With slide protection you are able to pick up all intended pressure so I have never understood the problem here. The issue you seem to be having with the hooks playing the seem is that you don't have the hooks playing at a deep enough depth. Drop those hooks defenders closer to safety depth (or get tricky and drop your safeties into hooks pre-snap) they will protect the seam and then drop short to jump underneath routes. This is one way that I have defended slot streaks alllllll season long.
First the reason most sim players have an issue with the 3 man edge rushes is simply because its 3 vs 5 and out of something like the 5-2 you can run it on either side without giving it away. Most people don't like the math with it. My biggest problem is that is actually abusing the programming. The game is designed to pick up LB's before DE's and if you try running a similar pressure scheme out of the 3-4 or 2-4-5 or 2-3-6, etc. you can't get a LB free off the edge while only bringing 3. The A gap plays should be obvious why sim players don't like them...you normally have a DT right in front of a center and yet he will come in free. I'm all for blitzing (I have a thread on Madden School with about 60-70 of them that you can use in any sim league) but some of them are pretty glitchy in the way the work while other are obviously taking advantage of the code the developers put in place to stop plays like the spy blitz and being able to bring quick A gap pressure with plays like 3-3-5 Prowl Bear Blitz.

Also the slide protection in the game is terribly basic. It lacks any sort of slide protection other than a full slide protect. We are missing 1/2 slide, 1/4, slide and a way to actually call out the protections before the snap.

As for the seams I know how to stop them, you don't play a cover 3 zone blitzing scheme all year without figuring that out but my issue is that you shouldn't have to do that to get them to play their zones properly.



Notice in this the outside end and the Strong Safety are tasked to defend the seam to the flat not the vacant area inbetween the two like they do in Madden. Why can't they just create a altered hook zone for fire zone coverage, they already do in some cases such as cover 3 bluff, or Sam Mike 2 Sting where the defender in the hook zone rotates over towards the middle of the field after the snap. So if they can make those type of hook zones why can't they make an actual fire zone coverage hook zone?
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