Madden Serenity

[unfriendlyghst]

If you think that the pool of NFL Gamers has dwindled from 12 million to 5 million simply because "Sports games are not as popular nowadays" I sugguest you look again at what I posted.

Before the liscence there were SEVERAL games to choose from, depending on what your deffenition of "NFL FUN" was. I personally owned 4 Football games at once, (And still have classic NFL Blitz on 64 just for kicks!)

As I said earlier, I beleived that EA would come out with a total Football EXPLOSION after acquiring the liscence, instead, they focussed all of there efforts into 2 games for the most part, dropping a watered down version of Blitz recently as well.

If you think that has nothing to do with the drop off in NFL Game customers than I think that you are missing the point. This isn't about who did what best back when, this has to do with now there is only one scource and they only put out one product.

Not everyone is happy with that.

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by rgiles36

I guess that'll come back to perception. I don't feel pass trajectories was a bug. It's not something that could've been bugged in QA and addressed before release. It's been an issue for years and now that it's fixed, it's equated to fixing a bug?!?

I wasn't talking about pass trajectories either.

I was talking about the "super LB" - something that could/should have been caught.

Quote: Originally Posted by rgiles36

Going to stir the pot a little bit: why should it be a given? When has Madden ever been the posterboy for unabashed realism? Is there an iteration of Madden that you can name that suggests Madden used to be uber-realistic and it's not now?

Well, when it competes in the same market space as games like the NFL2K series or the Front Page Sports series and not games like NFL Blitz - I think it's safe to say it's competing in the realistic football arena.

Just like MVP was in with Baseball Pro and other realistic baseball games. It wasn't Baseball Stars with fancy graphics.

Madden was never my #1 football game of choice, even on the PC versions. I played the heck out of Football Pro, even after it died I stayed in online leagues and made rosters - with the killing blow for me was the current alignment. If the NFL never went with this alignment - I probably wouldn't be here now.

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by unfriendlyghst

Aha! The pool of gamers used to be more thatn 12 million. But thanks to the liscence and EA focusing all attentions to Madden, they have driven that number down to 5 million themselves. Before the liscence, you had a CHOICE in what NFL game you played. Diferent styles of gameplay, arcade, sim, different franchise features, on and on and on. Fever, Madden, 2K5, Blitz, NFL Street. After EA acquired the exclusive liscence, I was under the impression that EA would have an NFL game explosion, seeing as they just cornered the market on ANYTHING football. College, Pros, Arena......... Instead, you know what happened and here I am, 7 years later still waitng on them to deliver 1 game that I can play (without smashing a controller)

Exactly! Only one company, EA, can make NFL football games and out of those football games, they have chosen to promote Madden to be the one for finding overall NFL authenticity. No gamer originated that expectation for Madden, EA/Tiburon did, so gamers should expect Madden to deliver. If that's not EA/Tiburon's intention for Madden, then they should make that known or gamers will continue to understandably scream foul for EA/Tiburon not delivering Madden, as advertised.

[roadman]

So, why don't we wait until 13 is delivered to judge if it's NFL realistic or not?

Especially, since this thread was partly put together based on Cam's thoughts, a bit difficult to judge him before the game is out.

Except for June 4th, we all know what is in Madden 13 and we all know what will be advertised.

If it's not in the game and not fitting the advertisement for 13, then fire away and I will lead the chorus.

[GiantBlue76]

Quote: Originally Posted by KBLover

Doesn't matter to me if I am. I want a realistic football game, and if that means I'm looking at things "in a vacuum" so be it. I'm not going to change what I want most in a game just so I can "not be in a vacuum." But a lot of things I want in Madden are just basic to football AND football games. Players moving in realistic ways and ratings that truly capture individual skill sets and fewer "carbon copy" players (really see it with the Madden draft kids - I just scouted 3 players that look like guys I already have...it's like "all good players look like this", "all average players look like this", etc) So if wanting basic realistic football elements and principles in a football game that's supposed to be more realistic (i.e. not like NFL Blitz), and wanting diverse skills sets to be able to shine and show up on the field, making me change, perhaps significantly, what I need/want/must do in building a team is looking at things in the a vacuum... ...So be it.

This is always discussed often here on OS and this is an area that I find to be very interesting. I think it's fair to say that "we are the minority". However, I beg to differ. I've got several friends who I've known a good portion of my life. We all used to play Madden together back in the day. WAY back in the day . When the 2k series hit, I was struck by it because a friend of mine convinced me to play it so I went in that direction (although I still enjoyed Madden, I didn't purchase the game after Madden 2000). These other guys refused to even try another football game despite my prodding to get them to. They were content with Madden. Today, those same guys have expressed to me how bad they want a good football game. These are guys that had every single Madden from 1989 until 2009/2010. They've stated to me that they have given up on it. NONE of these guys have ever even heard of OS. They do not spend any time reading internet forums, nor do they even know of sites like IGN/Gamespot/1UP, etc. etc. They don't know about any of it. I've talked with them alot about the problems with Madden and I hear them saying the same things a lot of guys on OS say. I even had a couple of friends go out and purchase the Show and NBA 2k to play instead of Madden because they wanted that sports game fix.

I don't believe that what we want is the big vacuum that many might think it is. The bottom line is that EA's thinking is skewed. The tournament guys are ALWAYS going to play Madden whether it's realistic or not. They are simply playing a game that is based on American football just like you would play Call of Duty. They simply play to win. They don't care about physics or realistic movement, etc. etc. Whether it's there or not, they are going to continue to play it. There is no need to "cater" to any so-called crowd of football gamers. Their job is to make an NFL simulation. Instead what they have tried to do is be a jack of all trades and master of none. They have tried to make Madden the game that can be played by everyone. Maybe this is the curse that comes with exclusivity - the NFL mandating that the game be accessible to as many fans as possible. I'm sure that has something to do with it, but that still doesn't explain the poorly implemented items we see in Madden on a yearly basis. Last year when Cam Weber came on we heard that the gameplay team was being doubled, so I expected to see MAJOR changes for Madden 13. Why not? They were supposedly holding back things from Madden 12 due to staffing up or working on the supposed newer technology. The doubled gameplay team was really going to make Madden 13 shine between the sidelines, right? We'd have player movement fixed, the most realistic line play ever, a real challenge system, proper ball physics, player mannerisms and players not moving in unison, etc. At one point I actually bought into it. As soon as I read that line play and player movement was not fixed, that was all I needed to hear. Business as usual at Tiburon. "Well, we couldn't fix that because we were working on pass trajectory". What happened to the doubled gameplay team? what was everyone working on during the Madden 12 cycle that DIDN'T make it into Madden 12? What I've learned is that there will always be some excuse, and there can be because there is nothing else able to push Madden. The old school fans like us who have been there since the beginning get the shaft in favor of attracting the younger gamers who are simply happy to have their favorite player zig zagging around the defense and scoring 4 TDs a game.

Like I said, fixing the trajectory is great (assuming it works as advertised), but once again, the changes are just short of putting it all together. I shouldn't have to wait 8 years for realistic player movement, good solid commentary, fleshed out online franchise, realistic line play, ball physics, penalties, interactive sidelines, realistic presentation and pass trajectories.

Put it all together and deliver like they did in 2005. If they are worried about not having enough to improve on the following year, they are truly lost. There are ALWAYS improvements to be made, and if the game is truly that amazing, the customers will line up to buy it the following year.

[RGiles36]

Quote: Originally Posted by kjcheezhead

This would be the most foolish thing EA could ever do for their product. Think about what this would mean for them to answer this either way. If the come out and say they are going to make the most realistic passing game ever, they lose the ear of the tourney guys that love doing ridiculous user catching. If they admit they are going to tone it down a bit but still keep pass interference out of the game and unrealistic user catching in they risk losing the simhead that begs for realism. Why would a company risk upsetting either base when you can avoid it and get both sales?

This sums up exactly how I feel. Well said.

Quote: Originally Posted by kjcheezhead

I am fully aware of we are the minority and that this game will never strive for the realism I want. Still, my only option in football gaming is to try to stress to the developers how important it is for me that certain areas of the game do achieve a much higher level than realism that it has now.

The self-proclaimed EA h a t e r speaks! J/K, I'm glad you understood where I was coming from.

That said, I'm on the realism train and I firmly believe that Tiburon is as well. I think the team is striving for the realism you want. Will they get there? That's the question.

Quote: Originally Posted by KBLover

I was talking about the "super LB" - something that could/should have been caught.

Don't want to engage in a back & forth that derails a good thread, but I don't think the LBs were the issue. It was their psychic ability along with the low passes, but I digress .

Quote: Originally Posted by KBLover

Well, when it competes in the same market space as games like the NFL2K series or the Front Page Sports series and not games like NFL Blitz - I think it's safe to say it's competing in the realistic football arena.

Yes, it competed with NFL2K in the same market space and often won the head to head battle with their realism/fun/balance approach. What's changed?

Here's the thing: you and I want the same thing, we do. Madden wasn't my first choice back in the day either.

I'm just not a fan of the sense of entitlement that we at OS tend to have. Madden has been for the most part what it's always been -- so why does everyone get disturbed that it's not like NFL2K or APF?

I'm not suggesting that I'm any different either. I just want to dialogue about the expectations and where they stem from...and are they justified?

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by kjcheezhead

This would be the most foolish thing EA could ever do for their product. Think about what this would mean for them to answer this either way. If the come out and say they are going to make the most realistic passing game ever, they lose the ear of the tourney guys that love doing ridiculous user catching. If they admit they are going to tone it down a bit but still keep pass interference out of the game and unrealistic user catching in they risk losing the simhead that begs for realism. Why would a company risk upsetting either base when you can avoid it and get both sales? RGiles I am fully aware of we are the minority and that this game will never strive for the realism I want. Still, my only option in football gaming is to try to stress to the developers how important it is for me that certain areas of the game do achieve a much higher level than realism that it has now.

Let me try to make a clear outline for my point. What EA/Tiburon currently is doing with the promotion of Madden, is claiming balls to the wall NFL authenticity with tourney, casual, new born baby control, accessibility and alternatives. What we have been getting in the final product is far from anything that NFL authentic, imo, but the other stuff has been spot on for casuals, tournies and new born babies.

There needs to be some accountability for promoting but not delivering NFL authenticity in the final product, aside from gamers just deciding not purchase, being left without a current NFL game to play. I think that accountability should either fall on EA/Tiburon to clearly state how NFL authentic they intend for Madden to be or for everyone, especially the Madden community to stop defending EA/Tiburon from repeated deserved criticism for promoting NFL authenticity they can't or don't intend to provide.

[CRMosier_LM]

Quote: Originally Posted by rgiles36

This sums up exactly how I feel. Well said. The self-proclaimed EA ***** speaks! J/K, I'm glad you understood where I was coming from. That said, I'm on the realism train and I firmly believe that Tiburon is as well. I think the team is striving for the realism you want. Will they get there? That's the question. Don't want to engage in a back & forth that derails a good thread, but I don't think the LBs were the issue. It was their psychic ability along with the low passes, but I digress . Yes, it competed with NFL2K in the same market space and often won the head to head battle with their realism/fun/balance approach. What's changed? Here's the thing: you and I want the same thing, we do. Madden wasn't my first choice back in the day either. I'm just not a fan of the sense of entitlement that we at OS tend to have. Madden has been for the most part what it's always been -- so why does everyone get disturbed that it's not like NFL2K or APF? I'm not suggesting that I'm any different either. I just want to dialogue about the expectations and where they stem from...and are they justified?

Wow... I really have to add you to my friends list big pimpin

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