Madden More Than Just a Game?

[Gotmadskillzson]

Madden use to be a game I loved in the early 90s. But now it has transformed into something that I don't care for like I did back in 92 and 93. It is a hell of a lot less about knowing the X's and O's and more about people exploiting the cracks in the game. Plus all this AUTO stuff they have in the game just turns me off.

Auto strafe
Auto pass
Tackle Assist
Catch Assist
Auto Sprint
Auto play calling
Auto drop back
Lit up icons to let you know when to throw the ball

Those things annoy me greatly and IMO is the babying of Madden. Dare I say it is way too user friendly ? To me it is. It use to be if you didn't know football, you got your butt handed to you for doing the wrong things. Now......the game auto corrects itself, so if you do something stupid, you can just press a button or in some cases don't press a button and the game corrects your mistake for you.

To me, that is like giving a trophy to everybody just because they were there..........Sports and life in general is about risk and rewards. Nowadays in Madden there is no risk what so ever.

Let me know when they start making Madden for adults again......because this whole generation they been making it so easy that a caveman can play it.

[StrawHat Patriot]

Quote: Originally Posted by Gotmadskillzson

Madden use to be a game I loved in the early 90s. But now it has transformed into something that I don't care for like I did back in 92 and 93. It is a hell of a lot less about knowing the X's and O's and more about people exploiting the cracks in the game. Plus all this AUTO stuff they have in the game just turns me off. Auto strafe Auto pass Tackle Assist Catch Assist Auto Sprint Auto play calling Auto drop back Lit up icons to let you know when to throw the ball Those things annoy me greatly and IMO is the babying of Madden. Dare I say it is way too user friendly ? To me it is. It use to be if you didn't know football, you got your butt handed to you for doing the wrong things. Now......the game auto corrects itself, so if you do something stupid, you can just press a button or in some cases don't press a button and the game corrects your mistake for you. To me, that is like giving a trophy to everybody just because they were there..........Sports and life in general is about risk and rewards. Nowadays in Madden there is no risk what so ever. Let me know when they start making Madden for adults again......because this whole generation they been making it so easy that a caveman can play it.

I'm telling you, Madden is has been and is continuing to become a game for casual gamers. When you compare M12 to real life, you see that.. It's just nothing but an acarde game, given all the "how to glitch" or "money plays that always work" etc.

Along with.... ah, I will just quote my old post.

"Madden's popularity comes down to two things:

The Exclusive License

Arcade Style Gameplay

When you look at all these "How to do this glitch" videos and all the "Money Plays against the CPU" and the overall gameplay exploits: Face throws, Zig Zag Running, etc, you realize that Madden just can't be taken seriously as a NFL sim, and it's simply meant to bring in those who are gamers, those who are football fans, and anybody else due to the nature of the game. That's NFL 2K didn't last. It was an actual legit attempt at being sim which didn't last long because the fast, arcade feel wasn't there to bring in everybody and to create a more of a rush for the player. It was simply a good sim. A sim that didn't give a rush. It was nice, slow, and realistic, unlike Madden was, and still is."

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by DeuceDouglas

I hear ya, but I feel like even if it was perfectly represented, the online stigma would be still very much the same. There would still be the people that run only one play, quit as soon as they're down 7-0, find a way to disconnect if they lose, and so on. There's always going to be a significant number of people that will severely and consistently destroy the online experience no matter how perfectly represented a game is or isn't. It really is a shame but I don't have faith that it will ever change anytime soon.

I disagree because like I stated earlier with online monetary transactions, there will always be those that try to "beat the system" and "break the rules" but that doesn't have to be allowed to ruin the benefits for everyone else. The more fundamentally realistic applicable aspects of a sports simulation game are, the inherently more difficult it is to be successful playing unrealistic. That lack of success becomes a consequential deterrent for gamers to play "arcade", which I argue is the main reason so many gamers avoid online play, the vast amount of arcade play and players.

Reasonable gamers understand that all video games are computer programs, no matter how realistic they play and will have glitches that some will find ways to exploit. However, that's where most company time and resources for online gaming should be placed in simulation sports games, securing against those ever evolving exploitable glitches in the program and their use, NOT on unrealistic fixes for unrealistic issues that exist as a result of a consistent lack of realistic initial implementation of real life aspects into the game.

[GiantBlue76]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

I disagree because like I stated earlier with online monetary transactions, there will always be those that try to "beat the system" and "break the rules" but that doesn't have to be allowed to ruin the benefits for everyone else. The more fundamentally realistic applicable aspects of a sports simulation game are, the inherently more difficult it is to be successful playing unrealistic. That lack of success becomes a consequential deterrent for gamers to play "arcade", which I argue is the main reason so many gamers avoid online play, the vast amount of arcade play and players. Reasonable gamers understand that all video games are computer programs, no matter how realistic they play and will have glitches that some will find ways to exploit. However, that's where most company time and resources for online gaming should be placed in simulation sports games, securing against those ever evolving exploitable glitches in the program and their use, NOT on unrealistic fixes for unrealistic issues that exist as a result of a consistent lack of realistic initial implementation of real life aspects into the game.

This post, my friend, is church.

[GiantBlue76]

Quote: Originally Posted by Gotmadskillzson

Madden use to be a game I loved in the early 90s. But now it has transformed into something that I don't care for like I did back in 92 and 93. It is a hell of a lot less about knowing the X's and O's and more about people exploiting the cracks in the game. Plus all this AUTO stuff they have in the game just turns me off. Auto strafe Auto pass Tackle Assist Catch Assist Auto Sprint Auto play calling Auto drop back Lit up icons to let you know when to throw the ball Those things annoy me greatly and IMO is the babying of Madden. Dare I say it is way too user friendly ? To me it is. It use to be if you didn't know football, you got your butt handed to you for doing the wrong things. Now......the game auto corrects itself, so if you do something stupid, you can just press a button or in some cases don't press a button and the game corrects your mistake for you. To me, that is like giving a trophy to everybody just because they were there..........Sports and life in general is about risk and rewards. Nowadays in Madden there is no risk what so ever. Let me know when they start making Madden for adults again......because this whole generation they been making it so easy that a caveman can play it.

Wow - Got, I could swear you've been sitting next to me because this post is unbelievably in line with how I feel. I mean, I don't even know what to add because this is EXACTLY how I feel, right down to the wording you used. Excellent post my friend, and it's refreshing to see so many old school respected football enthusiasts at OS speaking out about how they feel regarding this.

[LBzrule]

Lots of different responses, which is good. Let me provide some perspective on my initial post. I was operating on an understanding that games, contests and sports are all grounded in play. Following Allen Guttmann, professor of American Studies at Amherst College, I maintain a distinction between the latter three. I think Madden is both a game and a contest. I struggle to classify it as a sport although I think some things are in place for it to be classified as such. Let me spell out Guttmann's distinctions and see what you guys think.

For Guttmann a game is "organized play." That is, it is play with rules. When we were kids and mom and/or dad say go outside and play, sometimes we were left to our own inventions. Most of us perhaps played Hide and Seek, Leapfrog, Capture the Leader, You're It ect; These are all games with structured rules in play. However, they are a different type of game than say basketball, football, baseball, hockey ect. The former are mere games the latter are games that are rigorously distinct from the former. The latter are "contests." What distinguishes the latter games is there must be a winner and a loser. They are competitive and never merely games. That's what I was getting at in the original post. The transformation happened when I realized the notion of a winner and a loser and once that takes a seat in ones conscious life, it is very difficult for it to simply be "a game" again.

Let me provide another innocent example from child hood. Anyone every play House? or Doctor? These were games. They had rules. The difference was there was no winner or loser. Thus it was not a contest or competitive game. It was organized play.

Sport is where Guttman's distinctions get difficult with respect to Madden or any video game for that matter. Sport, says Guttmann is an intellectual and physical contest. I can see where Madden or any other game might be an intellectual contest. Implicit in our demand for a simulation game is intellectual competition. It's not a physical contest between human bodies though and that's where the framework begins to fall apart.

With Guttman's distinctions in mind, I don't see how Madden is merely just a game anymore. It is a type of game that actually incorporates an aspect of sport (intellectual competition). Now of course Guttman can be wrong in his distinctions. Ultimately, using Guttman's distinctions, not all games are contests because not all of them have the end goal of a winner/loser. Not all contests are games. Just thinking about wars and legal proceedings for a moment, these are not games. They are strictly contests that have no play element where a winner and loser will be declared. Finally all sports are contests and organized forms of play with physical and intellectual skills at work.


With these distinctions in mind, once we take hold of the mind set of winner and loser Madden is no longer a mere game. Now if we are simply fooling around like just trying to get the ambulance out, yeah, merely a game. Our demand for simulation with implied intellectual skill at work IMO is clamoring for it to be sport. Add to that communities already competing for money and I definitely think it has transcended into something else. This seems to no longer be about fun. That element is still there. Our penchant for competition and either rewriting our own story or being the one pushing the buttons behind our favorite teams brings out the competitor in all of us. I think there is a weaving of these elements together as we play. Depending on who we are one dynamic dominates over the other one.

[SilverChaosVII]

I think it's safe to say that it's more than just a game to the majority of us. We are sitting here on video game forums talking about sports games.

That alone should show the kind of competitive spirit that each and every one of us has.

The difficult part is finding people with the integrity that care about winning honest rather than just winning. Do they want to play a football game or a video game? The majority are interested in playing a video game. Very few still care about the x's and o's of the game... but when you find others like that it's fantastic.

After playing in probably the best Madden league there was with 2012, I can honestly say I'm questioning whether or not to buy 2013. I lost my cool towards the end of one of our final seasons and threw my controller (broke my xbox). My actions got me kicked out of the league. I respect the decision fully, because that's just childish. It's like I said, we are all competitive, but need to know how to control it in order to make the game good.

Now that I don't know if I will be able to find another pure sim league in 2013, I really don't want the game. I don't want to play against a mindless AI opponent. I don't want to play against kids that are willing to win at all costs. I want a game of football... and that's difficult to find in today's community.

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by Gotmadskillzson

Madden use to be a game I loved in the early 90s. But now it has transformed into something that I don't care for like I did back in 92 and 93. It is a hell of a lot less about knowing the X's and O's and more about people exploiting the cracks in the game. Plus all this AUTO stuff they have in the game just turns me off. Auto strafe Auto pass Tackle Assist Catch Assist Auto Sprint Auto play calling Auto drop back Lit up icons to let you know when to throw the ball Those things annoy me greatly and IMO is the babying of Madden. Dare I say it is way too user friendly ? To me it is. It use to be if you didn't know football, you got your butt handed to you for doing the wrong things. Now......the game auto corrects itself, so if you do something stupid, you can just press a button or in some cases don't press a button and the game corrects your mistake for you. To me, that is like giving a trophy to everybody just because they were there..........Sports and life in general is about risk and rewards. Nowadays in Madden there is no risk what so ever. Let me know when they start making Madden for adults again......because this whole generation they been making it so easy that a caveman can play it.

It took me a minute to really ponder what you were saying in this post and I initially disagreed with some of it. However, when I went to reply, I took a different POV and I think I see exactly what you are talking about and I completely agree.

I was originally going to state that I don't have an issue with automated UI game play options but then I realized, that pretty much defeats the purpose of having to choose between AI control versus User control. lol

The whole team concept of football in Madden should be, do I trust my AI teammate to make this play or do I take control to do it myself. Each decision should have inherent risk/reward and those "assists" are basically diminishing the risk of User control.

Great post Got and I think those AI assists for User control should be unavailable for use, on the higher skill levels, All-pro and All Madden.