Madden 13 Video Community Day Roundtable Sim Standard vs Tourney style

[GiantBlue76]

Quote: Originally Posted by jpdavis82

You didn't see the post on this thread? http://www.operationsports.com/forum...ince-e3-9.html 8th post on there

Russ and I go way back and have much mutual respect, so this is not to say I don't believe him, but some people have a very different view as to what zig zag running is. All of the videos I have seen so far have rampant zig zag running. Some people don't realize it because they are used to it, and they don't see a problem. Other camps (like myself) can't stand it. If they are able to lower its effectiveness to the point where you don't need to make any rules for it, that would be nice. That being said - They REALLY need to address player running and movement in this game. Band-aids, string and duct tape are not going to cut it in order to hold Madden together. The line play, player movement, player interaction, etc. etc. should be done extremely well next year. Not in two years, not in the "future", but now. I'm tired of having to play an unlicensed game to see real football present. I don't want to enjoy that game more than the NFL game any longer.

Tiburon guys - if you are out there listening - no more excuses and other nonsense. Next year needs REAL gameplay upgrades, not a fresh coat of paint!

[jpdavis82]

Quote: Originally Posted by tazdevil20

Russ and I go way back and have much mutual respect, so this is not to say I don't believe him, but some people have a very different view as to what zig zag running is. All of the videos I have seen so far have rampant zig zag running. Some people don't realize it because they are used to it, and they don't see a problem. Other camps (like myself) can't stand it. If they are able to lower its effectiveness to the point where you don't need to make any rules for it, that would be nice. That being said - They REALLY need to address player running and movement in this game. Band-aids, string and duct tape are not going to cut it in order to hold Madden together. The line play, player movement, player interaction, etc. etc. should be done extremely well next year. Not in two years, not in the "future", but now. I'm tired of having to play an unlicensed game to see real football present. I don't want to enjoy that game more than the NFL game any longer. Tiburon guys - if you are out there listening - no more excuses and other nonsense. Next year needs REAL gameplay upgrades, not a fresh coat of paint!

Do you see the Inifinity Engine as a fresh coat of paint? Especially knowing this is phase one of a 3 year implementation of physics into Madden according to Victor Lugo?

[JerzeyReign]

JerzeyReign's Daily One Line Post: Zig Zag running will only be fixed when the game respects proper foot planting -- everything else is a band aid.

Ok, thats it. Enjoy your Sunday!

[N51_rob]

Quote: Originally Posted by jpdavis82

Do you see the Inifinity Engine as a fresh coat of paint? Especially knowing this is phase one of a 3 year implementation of physics into Madden according to Victor Lugo?

First, this is not directed at you so please don't take offense...

EA IMO loves to throw out the words "three year plan". Madden 12 was suppose the be the final stage of a "three year plan" to revolutionize franchise mode (Ian Cummings) and I don't think that worked out very well. Madden 12 was the first year of Cam Webber's "three year plan", which included features being mapped out through Madden 14. And now Madden 13 is year one of Victor Lugo's "three year plan" with physics. I'm not saying that I don't beleive that they have a three year plan.

I just don't understand why everything needs three years of development to be where it "should" be or where the devs "envisioned" it to be. Yes, I have an understanding of the SDLC and the scope of what EA is trying to do, but I don't agree with us getting 33% (in theory) of these visions at a time.

That said, I see a lot of work done in Madden 13, CCM, R&R defense, Passing overhaul, presentation, commentary, infinity physics. I just don't get or like the constant use of a three year plan. I mean really Madden 14 is the end of Cam Webber's initial "three year plan" and OL/DL interaction, player movement, WR/DB jostling, penalties, and playbooks all need serious work IMO. Seems like if you couple those with year two of physics, CCM, presentation in addition to Gen4 development there is a lot to be done in year 3 of Mr. Webber's plan. I hope they can get it all done.

[GiantBlue76]

Quote: Originally Posted by jpdavis82

Do you see the Inifinity Engine as a fresh coat of paint? Especially knowing this is phase one of a 3 year implementation of physics into Madden according to Victor Lugo?

You asked me so I will answer like I do with everyone - honestly and objectively.

When I first heard that the size of the gameplay team was being doubled, I thought that wasn't a bad idea. However, given what Tiburon has done over the last 8 years, I didn't put much stock into it. In fact, they can say anything they want. It doesn't mean a thing to me. The only thing that carries any weight to me is the game itself. How is the final product. When everyone was going crazy speculating about the revolutionary gameplay addition and touting RTP as the killer add, I was one of those folks who didn't think RTP was the solution to Madden's problems. Also, let's clarify, the implementation they've added is only for tackling and collisions. I've watched most of the videos, and it looks "OK". The physics implementation is a great direction and it is good they put some of it in for this year, but I still see the same poor animations and interactions. I do see some things that are better than last year, but once again, better than last year is nothing to write home about when it comes to Madden. It bothers me more that when I look at the animations in APF, I see players landing on each other, bodies bending and contorting correctly depending on where they are hit and the tackles and collisions look real. I think Madden needs to improve more in this area. However, player interaction as a whole is abysmal in Madden. The videos of Madden 13 do not look much different than 12. It's not terrible, but it's not great. The physics engine is something that will improve over time as long as they build on it and it will enhance the game in the future more so than this year.

Touting pass trajectories, "throw your receiver open", read and react, etc. is not anything revolutionary. Marketing the fact that you can now throw the ball over a defender says a lot about where you are at with your game. That's just silly in my opinion. It's something that should definitely have been fixed and included in the release (which is good), but it should not be sold as back of the box item. It is a bug fix, because the game was broken in that you could not do it before. Instead of coming through and completely overhauling their player interactions and line play, they addressed none of that. That's the stuff that requires real work. If it took them an entire year to do pass trajectories, tweak QB drop backs and improve the problems with warping, all with a now DOUBLED gameplay team, then that just says your development team is seriously lacking. I'm curious to know how many programmers are now on the central gameplay team, did they double it from 2 to 4? That's what it seems like. The physics were done by a completely different team, so they are not part of central gameplay. They say they added 430 new catch animations, yet in all of the videos, I still see a lot of the same wonky catch animations over and over. You see very little difference when a ball is overthrown, underthrown, thrown just out of reach, behind/ahead of a receiver - it's all just so robotic and silly looking, quite honestly.

I know it frustrates you that I don't see Madden through rose-colored glasses, but I speak honestly. I'm not going to sing praises when I see things that I had in games nearly a decade old. What you seem to not understand about me is that I WANT to love this game again. I grew up playing every football game and Madden was a big part of it. I loved it because it was a realistic game. It has not evolved. These expectations are not at all unreasonable and what I find is that many folks are willing to "cut them a break". That's the problem with the game in general. It has gotten far too many breaks. Yes - I'm tough on them and I am critical, but only because I am trying to show them why you can't go anywhere online without finding venom being spewed towards Tiburon. The bar is so low for football that gamers just want what they already had at one point. They aren't even asking for the envelope to be pushed anymore.

Now - all that being said - if you were to ask me about CCM, now that is something I think took the jump that people expect for a 60 dollar title. Gameplay still isn't all that good when it comes to simulation.

So now that I have explained my point of view - you are free to disagree. Everyone views things differently. Therefore I am not begrudging you for not aligning with my thinking. I am merely posting what I honestly feel about playing Madden. Don't try to convince me to love it, because I don't work that way. I need to see it and experience it for real, that's the ONLY thing that will change my mind. Nothing Tiburon, or anyone else for that matter, says or does will affect that, only the final product will.

[moneal2001]

@N51 other games take 3 to 5 years for development. madden has to be put out every year, so a three year plan for madden is very similar to other development cycles. they just have to implement 1/3 of the plan at a time instead of all at once. unless you would like 3 them to not add features for 2 years at a time while working on getting thw whole plan in at one time.

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by moneal2001

@N51 other games take 3 to 5 years for development. madden has to be put out every year, so a three year plan for madden is very similar to other development cycles. they just have to implement 1/3 of the plan at a time instead of all at once. unless you would like 3 them to not add features for 2 years at a time while working on getting thw whole plan in at one time.

Well guess I will get to post it first, other sports title release every year just like Madden does, yet Madden has yet to be at some of their level's, imo.

[GiantBlue76]

Quote: Originally Posted by moneal2001

@N51 other games take 3 to 5 years for development. madden has to be put out every year, so a three year plan for madden is very similar to other development cycles. they just have to implement 1/3 of the plan at a time instead of all at once. unless you would like 3 them to not add features for 2 years at a time while working on getting thw whole plan in at one time.

Sorry, but this tired argument holds no water. We've been waiting 8 years already for player movement, interactions and other basics. Had they taken 2-3 years and done it right from the beginning, we wouldn't be in this mess. Compound that with the fact that it takes them a ridiculously long time to add/fix things in this game and you have frustrated fans. It takes WAY too long to address things with Madden. Other games make much bigger jumps. They do not develop things in one year. They spend several cycles on things, so this whole "one year" thing is a myth.