why is sim a curse word in this game??

[StrawHat Patriot]

Quote: Originally Posted by moneal2001

@Brian i think madden going the opposite way fifa did with physics, meaning collision before movement, is that collision is more prominent in football. soccer is built on finesse and footwork. while football is built on strength and collision. both have areas where the opposite helps, like footwork being helpful for running backs or linemen.

But human movement in general starts with footwork foot planting/movement.

[GiantBlue76]

Quote: Originally Posted by moneal2001

@Brian i think madden going the opposite way fifa did with physics, meaning collision before movement, is that collision is more prominent in football. soccer is built on finesse and footwork. while football is built on strength and collision. both have areas where the opposite helps, like footwork being helpful for running backs or linemen.

I disagree. ANY sports game must have realistic movement down. Players run and interact in MANY ways. Also, look at what they have done with the infinity engine which kind of goes against with what you are saying here. It does not have any affect on WR/DB or Line interactions. Regardless of that, the infinity engine would be much more impressive if player movement was addressed. It's very poor and it takes away from the positives the physics engine brings to the table.

[moneal2001]

i agree guys. i was just stating why i thought the devs chose to go the way they went. another reason is the wow factor. i mean the nfl puts out a greatest hits video every year.

[SteelerSpartan]

Because for so many years they were building the game for the wrong audience......The type of audience that just wants to pick up the game and be an immediate champion and easily pump out SportCenter Highlight Reels....

The game didn't/still sort of doesn't reward all the small things that go into winning in the real NFL.....

If you weren't Averaging 30 yards a Pass Play, 150 Rushing Yards P/G, 5 Ints, 15 Sacks P/G.........

Then the game made you feel like you were a poor player

[Big FN Deal]

I wasn't going to "go there" but BrianFifafan's excellent posts inspired me. To twosilk's question, somehow for some, "sim" has become synomonus with "difficult" and "fun" with success. Those that often tout how "fun" the game is or should be, seem to be referring to their success in it. Even some that claim to want "sim" are actually asking to make the game intentionally more difficult for those that currently find success in it. However, those wanting "sim" in an impartial sense are asking for NFL realism and let the chips fall where they may, whether that leads to success, difficulty or whatever.

A good example of what I am referring to are tactics currently in Madden that function blatantly unrealistically but work as implemented in the game. It should be a given that anyone that claims to want realism in Madden should be in full agreement about those tactics being "fixed" or addressed to be implemented to function as realistically as possible. However, what often happens is you get gamers that find success with those tactics proclaiming the "fun" value they add to the game, those that want the tactics difficult to execute proclaiming make the game "sim" and those wanting impartial realism that just want them as realistic as possible, no matter the result, as it should be.

I stated all that to say that, I agree with CRMosier because he was actually one of the first people I remember posting this sentiment, that to avoid confusion or misunderstanding in Madden discussions it's best to refer to realism instead of "sim".

That's what make Brain's posts so spot on and air tight for any person(s) or company claiming to want to make Madden NFL realistic.

[DNMHIII]

Quote: Originally Posted by BrianFifaFan

I think of "sim" as realistic locomotion, tackling and player movement, first and foremost. I feel that, for all of the emphasis on playing styles, that's where Madden needs to focus. I won't bring up the CD member's name, but one statement made me cringe. " the developers need to factor in the fast twitch of a shooter...." Wrong. If memory serves right, the same person brought up how the Fifa players felt like they had lead plates in the pants. One of my biggest non "SIM" elements that plague Madden is the goofy locomotion. Then there's the "patty cake." If Madden can ever be thought of as a "sim" title, they need to make the players move and interact in a realistic manner. And that's pretty much how it is in Fifa and NHL. No more quick zig-zags, no more warping... Then Madden can start to build a football sim...

It was just last night that I as watching some e3 clips and the player models and movement is so off that I finally decided that I have absolutely no interest in playing madden until these things are corrceted. I've never liked next gen because of this and hopefully we'll get a game someday that even looks visually correct.

I could actually live with only roster updates for two years if EA could just start from scratch and do things right relative to player models and movement.

[aceoye]

Quote: Originally Posted by TWOSILK

When people hear the word sim they instantly think: boring, mundane, and no way in hell thats a fun way to play. I dont think you could be more off base, now let me preface this with I'm 36 and dont have time to scour the internet looking for the hottest new "madden" play or the new "madden" blitz. So yes i just want to sit down and play some football, not madden, now playing sim you can blitz, you can run tosses, you can run counters, you can call 4 verts if you want. But the point is to call all of that in a game, not pick one and run it over and over and over. When most around here say we want sim football, this is what we are referring to(other sim heads chime in) 1. Play variety 2. Realistic play calling(plays that fit the down and distance) 3. no 15 hot routes at the line of scrimmage 4. no excessive blitzing, no one should blitz all game 5. no actions that PURPOSELY manipulate the a.i. if you are going to beat me, then beat me not the a.i. 6. no you tube passing schemes its not realistic to know a play will work before you snap the ball 7. no huddle all game, sprinkled in thats fine 8. punt on 4th down, now 4th and inches, your call, have no problem with someone going for a 4th down or two if it makes football sense(dont use belichick) has your selling point lol 9. respect your opponent, if you are winning late in the game by a large margin, why pour it on, win your game and move on. 10. have fun!!! now i have a question for the freestyle community: How do you guys have fun playing a game with predetermined outcomes?? I mean you call a play knowing that it will work, like some blitzes you know will work(unless i slide protect, leave all my receivers in to block and ask the referee to trip the DE) You know what i mean. How is this fun?? running the same plays over and over and over how do you gain enjoyment out of that??

So of this I dont understand really..Smart NFL QBs call plays they know will work or do the same type of play several times a game because they know it will work according to the defense.

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by aceoye

So of this I dont understand really..Smart NFL QBs call plays they know will work or do the same type of play several times a game because they know it will work according to the defense.

No, they don't know with 100% certainty that it will work.

They know that it attacks a weakness in the other team/personnel/playcall tendency, but even a team getting blown out can get a stop here or there - just not nearly enough.

If a play can be known to work 100% of the time, that's an issue. Nothing should be 100% or 0% or close to those extremes, given both teams making reasonable calls and adjustments (if you come out in spread 4 WR, 1 HB, and I come out in goal line...then, yeah, you should take me to the woodshed, and I should take myself there, too, but I'm assuming competent strategists are playing the game, not the equivalent of going all-in with seven-duece off-suit and drawing three sevens or to a flush to beat you).

If a play simply exploits the weaknesses of the other squad and/or your strengths as a squad - then there should be an advantage for the favorable matchups (in a realistic way), but not a 100% given. Any given Sunday and all that.