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The more videos I watch, the less I seem to see the impact of the Infinity engine

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Old 07-20-2012, 09:45 PM   #1193
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Re: The more videos I watch, the less I seem to see the impact of the Infinity engine

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Originally Posted by Big FN Deal
Yeah I am aware that the Youtube guys were the ones that brought the issue front and center, that was my point about I wouldn't be surprised if even TSS didn't think to bring this up while at Tiburon though. It's natural for anyone to get down to Tiburon, get caught up with all the goings on and simply forget to bring up something like this.
Now this I can't understand... how are you for ratings/stats being properly represented,pro simulation, pro physics And NOT bring line interaction into question when being shown the infinity engine and your all knowledgeable enough to be selected to represent the community. When did they stop checking their problems list and what were the reasons why these weren't addressed and if they were given answers to those questions either their not saying or they can't. And that's a criticism I would wage to anyone who has been following these issues since at least 08 when the oline was the worst and hasn't really gotten any better. How many of us wouldn't think to bring this stuff up? I even would ask this of the people that do the podcast Q&A's why do they never ask the tough questions and why isn't the sim starved community made aware, somehow by someone, anyone? It would greatly increase the communities opinion of the programs that EA is running to better the game.

With the next madden possibly the last on this gen, can they address those areas in such a drastic way that it finally is the best of this generation...last gen was an easy call, this gen is a toss up and not in a good way. Can they bring it in the final quarter and win the ring because I might not be able toe afford the next round of consoles or live with their paranoid "always on internet" (possibly). How many of you are willing to wait till Madden 15?



I'll follow my EAGLES to the grave but Madden I might have to totally give up on.
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Old 07-20-2012, 09:54 PM   #1194
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Re: The more videos I watch, the less I seem to see the impact of the Infinity engine

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Originally Posted by TreFacTor
Now this I can't understand... how are you for ratings/stats being properly represented,pro simulation, pro physics And NOT bring line interaction into question when being shown the infinity engine and your all knowledgeable enough to be selected to represent the community. When did they stop checking their problems list and what were the reasons why these weren't addressed and if they were given answers to those questions either their not saying or they can't. And that's a criticism I would wage to anyone who has been following these issues since at least 08 when the oline was the worst and hasn't really gotten any better. How many of us wouldn't think to bring this stuff up? I even would ask this of the people that do the podcast Q&A's why do they never ask the tough questions and why isn't the sim starved community made aware, somehow by someone, anyone? It would greatly increase the communities opinion of the programs that EA is running to better the game.

With the next madden possibly the last on this gen, can they address those areas in such a drastic way that it finally is the best of this generation...last gen was an easy call, this gen is a toss up and not in a good way. Can they bring it in the final quarter and win the ring because I might not be able toe afford the next round of consoles or live with their paranoid "always on internet" (possibly). How many of you are willing to wait till Madden 15?



I'll follow my EAGLES to the grave but Madden I might have to totally give up on.
Pump your brakes Tre, I didn't say they didn't bring it up, that was just me speculating. Also, I am referring specifically to showing the devs a Kicker successfully playing OL, which I have only seen happen if a CPU team has excessive OL injuries. There is no way that know of to actually place a Kicker on the OL. They would have to edit a Kicker to OL, to make the point and with position editing not being in M13 CC, it might not have been thought about.

The main point was, it's things like that which staying in constant contact and interaction with the community at large when at Tiburon, might help them think specifically about..
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Old 07-20-2012, 09:59 PM   #1195
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Re: The more videos I watch, the less I seem to see the impact of the Infinity engine

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Originally Posted by Tyrant8RDFL
Just to piggy back off of this. MLB the show has no competition, and they continue to put out a solid product. Why you ask, because they want too.

Like someone stated earlier with some companies they put the gamers first, and other put the share holders first.
They put gamers 1st, I would love to see Sony have the NFL license. Its not bc the grass is always greener on the otherside but bc the proof is in the pudding.
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Old 07-20-2012, 10:03 PM   #1196
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Re: The more videos I watch, the less I seem to see the impact of the Infinity engine

Though I think the fact that it is necessary to prove my credentials to anyone is a little disheartening, I understand the lack of trust so I'll make the attempt in the hope that we can get past that issue and actually focus on what is important.

So, some of you know that this cycle my focus was NCAA Football 13, I wish I had some Madden feedback for you but unfortunately my employer isn't as flexible as some of the other Game Changers. As far as NCAA goes, I can't say I'm overwhelmingly happy with the game as it stands, but I think overall it is a better game than NCAA Football 12 was.

Also, please keep in mind I'm not single handedly responsible for the following items, Drifterbub from TSO and I usually work closely together. These were items just from my first visit:

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The floor for recruit weights is too low for certain positions.
This was corrected so the recruit weights are more in line with reality. I didn't say perfect, because I still want recruits to actually resemble human beings and grow while they are in school. Together, Drifterbub and I have a HUGE amount of feedback just about recruiting. Literally he and I could go in a room and hammer out a whole new system.

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In the passing game, trajectory is much more realistic but the ability to “float” the ball is still pretty difficult.
The "float area" between bullet and lob was tuned to be more open by my feel. I'm sure this was being constantly tuned but in the initial build I played in January it seemed MUCH more black/white than black/gray/white. Again, can't say this was directly attributed to my feedback, there were multiple guys there.

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Throwing into space is my favorite new feature, but at this point it is FAR too effective.
This progressively got scaled back each visit I made to EA. The initial build was interesting, i.e. you could throw into the hole between flat and deep defenders on a go route, it looked like a comeback. I still think there are some issues where the receiver makes a play on an impossible ball, but I'm satisfied with the way it came out in retail.

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It would be nice to be able to order recruits by projected overall.
This wasn't in the initial UI but was implemented.

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The user needs to be able to manually reorder their recruiting board.
The first time we saw an actual recruiting build this ability had been omitted from the redesigned screen, but we persisted about it's return and it was. I know personally I order by board in the order I want players and the way it was originally you could only sort by the grid headers.

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The scouting pool needs to be separated from the recruiting pool.
In the intial build, the pool to scout and recruit was combined. We also had the amount of scouting time reduced, I believe it was originally a 20 hour total, then a 10/10 split, I personally was in favor of 10/5, but it ended up 10/3, which I personally feel is a bit low. I wish it was configurable by the user.

Quote:
The top prospects need to have their projected overall tuned down.
This is much improved, the original obuscation code was far to liberal and it wasn't uncommon to see VERY high rated players when unscouted drop 15-20 points when scouted. My comment was that it was an emotional let down to constantly see "busts" on all the top recruits.

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Multi-position athletes are super human at unrealistic positions.
An example, a QB/WR/S prospect who was a very highly rated DE. This was changed for retail, not saying there isn't some of it that exists.

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Now that you have the playing style pitch tied into player performance the pancake bug needs to be addressed as a high priority.
This apparently was a very tough bug to fix and involved a large effort to fix. The addressed this issue. I know exactly what the issue is but I'm not sure it's wise of me to divulge the details since it involves specific engine details.

--

On top of these, I would estimate I entered issue reports on 60-80 items that were fixed in the final build (read: bugs, usability issues, etc). To be completely fair, there also were a large amount of complaints I had that weren't addressed (fatigue, the "skinny arm" bug", etc.) and some items that needed to be tuned that are still in the final build. That said, I have a new perspective on how difficult the job the designers have tuning. A suggested tuning often has consequences in other areas. Think about the guys who do sliders and say they would love to move a certain slider but it affects odd things.

--

Next topic, I don't at all agree with Casey (sorry bro, still love you) about his take on a 4 man rush. I'd just be reiterating what KBLover said above, but I said this in the TSO chat box earlier today, a 4 man front can get pressure, either through superior athletes, confusion, overloading gap responsibilities, or a combination of those items. I haven't ran the 4-3 in forever because I can't deal with my DT's being sack leaders (though they often are in the 3-4 because I user them). It also eats at me that big Haloti Ngata ends don't occupy blockers in the passing game properly.

--

In case I need to "rep my cred" anymore for you guys, here are the items I submitted on the Game Changer Idea site:

Why did I include that list? Because if any of those ideas get in I'm going to be reading your ideas about them. I don't know everything (does anyone?) but I don't like going into anything unprepared. I've read a massive amount of football literature in the past year trying to increase my real life football knowledge base, but there are still gaps in my understanding that I'm going to need help to fill. That's where you guys come in.

All that said, I'll answer any question I'm comfortable answering, as long as people don't troll me too much. Honestly my tolerance for arguing is very low (I'm used to just banning people who irritate me) but I understand the culture on OS is a bit different that on TSO so I'm trying to learn to be more patient and not take things personally so much. Bear with me.
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Old 07-20-2012, 10:07 PM   #1197
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Icon2 Re: The more videos I watch, the less I seem to see the impact of the Infinity engine

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Originally Posted by CRMosier_LM
I'm not even going to get into this one.... all I'm going to say is some people expect to call a play with a 4-man rush vs 6 blockers and get massive pressure on a consistent basis. It doesnt happen in the NFL on a regular basis. when I provided over 800k games online worth of data and there was only 1 DT in the top 10 in sacks and 3 in the top 25... what do you want me to do? Lets change the game so that the folks that want insta pressure from a 4 man rush can be happy. We want realism...
I think I might understand what you're getting at here, even though you've gotten blasted for your response.

There is a lot of posters who do seem to think that just because they have (insert elite pass rusher here) that the should be reeking havoc on every pass play.

However, there a also quite a few posters who know what they're talking about too and your quote is dismissive of that.

How can you watch/play the game and say that the pass protection/pass rush logic is fine? It's not. It's that simple. There is not the sustained formation or collapse of an actual pocket.

You're right when you say you just cant expect to consistently get pressure when rushing 4. That's right. But, you also shouldn't expect to see no post contact movement occuring from your rushers, no matter how many is rushing or protecting. Pass rush/protection is an all or nothing thing as it is now and that's just not right.

I do appreciate the fact that you're spending time and responding to most questions. I also appreciate the fact that you are not obliged to answer a question if you don't want to, but if you want to respected by the majority of the community, you really shouldn't make posts like this one.
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Old 07-20-2012, 10:08 PM   #1198
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Re: The more videos I watch, the less I seem to see the impact of the Infinity engine

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Originally Posted by Pared
So the tourney guys are nothing but glorified testers? Because THIS community has offered more than enough input, had it been implemented, would have this game in a more acceptable state than it is today.

How can I say that? Because THIS community has done this very thing ASB, MVP, NHL, NBA 2k & Live and The Show. I've seen this over the 10 years this community has grown, with developers reaching out to improve games without any marketing involved. Why? BECAUSE THEY WANT TO MAKE THE GAME BETTER.

You know the difference in all of those games? The amount of feedback implemented has time and time again helped refine (and create in some instances) gameplay mechanics and features that other gamers have enjoyed. I've seen this first-hand. So please - spare me the "incorrect" angle. Until the Madden development team decides to implement the features that allow the user to customize the game to what they would like to see AND respect things such as the laws of physics, you will continue to see the twitch-fest gameplay result that mimics Play Action Football, released 20 years ago.

Let me ask you this - why do YOU think this community does not see value in this program? You've been continually asked to provide examples of the benefits of the program in years past and the responses given are nothing short of uninspiring. Vague answers to specific questions and pleas of an NDA for last years game? Have these community events NOT been occurring since as far back as MaddenMania?

You resort to pointing out other companies attempt to copy this (again, this has actually been pretty common at game companies - all EA did was give it a fancy name and market it heavily; that's not the point here though) instead of answering the questions of the community. A question is posed - and guys go into hiding until it is forgotten. I believe Aaron asked for the 15 examples and that was glossed over. Let's all just push that one under the rug - we haven't even seen 5 examples. How about guys start there?

I believe until anyone in the program can provide a little more transparency and fruitful results you will continue to find skepticism outside your communities. It comes with territory.




Thanks, man.
Glorified game testers hahaa, I agree though.
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Old 07-20-2012, 10:24 PM   #1199
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Re: The more videos I watch, the less I seem to see the impact of the Infinity engine

So they know about the O-line and said it was to much work to fix it, what a frickin joke. I guess in life if things are hard to do you say F-It right. This is what angers me about EA... They can take the time to make MUT and other things like that but not fix the real problem. I understand its a different team for each but if you cant fix it find someone who can or atleast charge me half the price for half a game.....................
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Old 07-20-2012, 10:25 PM   #1200
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Originally Posted by juggalotusx
So they know about the O-line and said it was to much work to fix it, what a frickin joke. I guess in life if things are hard to do you say F-It right. This is what angers me about EA... They can take the time to make MUT and other things like that but not fix the real problem. I understand its a different team for each but if you cant fix it find someone who can or atleast charge me half the price for half a game.....................
Is this in reply to me?
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