My take on the "Injustice" of Madden 13 Ratings

[SteboSSK]

First thing the community can do to progress with ratings is let go of bias. Ratings should reflect the abilities and stats should back that. If a player has a high frequency of balls thrown his way and has a very little to no drop count his hands should be lets say in the 90's. Certain players are bumped high due to the comparison issues and bias. Lets just compare Vick and Brady. If you use Madden ratings outside of Accuracy and Awareness Vick should totally destroy Brady in ratings, but the Madden system will bump Brady in other areas to make sure his OVR stays well above Vick's. Happens all the time in 2k. In order for Dirk to get a high rating they must overrate his rebounding abilities to reflect a higher rating so someone like Blake Griffin isnt torching him in the OVR rating.

[mpeterso]

Quote: Originally Posted by DCEBB2001

What parts of the game engine do you think are scaled this way and why would it matter? Are you referring to how the generated rookies come in whereas if we were able to edit the players this could be changed? Or...are you referring to the animations directly. In my experience with the Madden game engine, if I have a player with a SPD of 1 and another with a SPD of 99 and adjust the threshold you can get the results you like. It is too bad we cannot have more adjustability in the game itself for these types of issues.

Speed is the only attribute in the game that can be influenced by adjusting its threshold. As you alluded we can't adjust STR, ACC, JMP etc, and while other sliders directly impact game play, they don't seem to directly affect sim results. Therefore we are limited by the game and are some what stuck to it's nebulous rating scale.

My only clue to what both the game play and sim engines use for scales are EA's rosters. There is no other info or documentation that I'm aware of that indicates what 1-99 SP or STR or TKL ratings indicate other than what EA rosters seem to hint at - and that is a scale that is not as uniform or 'scientific' as many of us would expect or even like.

Don't get me wrong, I agree mostly with what you're saying and what you're trying to accomplish. It's just that I don't think the game is granular enough to fully accommodate a full 1-99 rating scale for all attributes and skills.

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by mpeterso

Not trying to be too nit picky, but how would it be possible for a NFL player to have 8 for AWR or 16 for ACC? I mean, to put it in terms of another rating that is relatively easy to quantify like SP, a 16 SP would literally be 6 times slower than the fastest players. That means over a measurable distance like 40 yards, a 16 SP player would not even have run 10 yards by the time a 96+ SP player had run 40!

For one, it was just for illustration.

Secondly, it's entirely possible. Using your numbers of 4.2 and 5.8.

If 0 = 5.8, and 99 = 4.2, then each point is worth 0.016 seconds.

So a 16 speed would be a 5.5 40 time.

It has nothing to do with being 6x as fast. It's where the time would fall on a scale where each point has equal value and the top and bottom of the scale are set to the fast and slowest ever speeds for a player.

[mpeterso]

Quote: Originally Posted by KBLover

For one, it was just for illustration. Secondly, it's entirely possible. Using your numbers of 4.2 and 5.8. If 0 = 5.8, and 99 = 4.2, then each point is worth 0.016 seconds. So a 16 speed would be a 5.5 40 time. It has nothing to do with being 6x as fast. It's where the time would fall on a scale where each point has equal value and the top and bottom of the scale are set to the fast and slowest ever speeds for a player.

Sorry about that - that makes sense.

[ozzy57]

Quote: Originally Posted by bukktown

That first sentence is a little bit closed minded if you are talking about the genre in general. They can make ratings totally derived from statistics. The data is available. Football outsiders has a phenomenal database. If you are only talking about Madden, then yea that ship done sailed with the voting on ratings crap.

If you use a legend or G.O.A.T at that position at a 99 you will run into a lot of problems. The game has changed and teams now pass more and use 2 to sometimes 3 backs so the yardage wouldn't be the same as it was then and most players at the positions now are faster and stronger then they were back in the day which most hall of fame players are from. You will always have people disagree but honestly and I don't care how you do it you can not make every RB feel different by stats there are over 128 RB's in the NFL not counting free agents you can not make everyone feel different and even if you separate some you will have people saying well Ben Tate should be higher he would start for this team or that he is better then this player. Stats shouldn't be how players feel differently completely they should use traits and tendencies to fix that.

[blklightning]

Dude, three QBs threw for over 5 thousand yards last season. This is a quarterback's league. Having five over 95 makes perfect sense right now.

[Juce734]

Everyone tries to say speed should be a direct result of 40 times. What about acceleration? I would say acceleration should be even more important for 40 times. If you have a guy with 99 top speed but his acceleration is only 65 well I am sorry but he won't be running a 4.2 40 time. So that also needs to be taken into account.

[mpeterso]

Quote: Originally Posted by Juce734

Everyone tries to say speed should be a direct result of 40 times. What about acceleration? I would say acceleration should be even more important for 40 times. If you have a guy with 99 top speed but his acceleration is only 65 well I am sorry but he won't be running a 4.2 40 time. So that also needs to be taken into account.

Psssst... check out DCEBB2001's "Speed" thread:

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...ell-speed.html

10+ pages on using 40 times for sp and acc.