Sim crowd wanting to make the game too complex?

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by shttymcgee

You want sim, does the defense have more time to get in their call then the offense in a real game? The front may not interfere with the coverage versus a pass, but it most certainly does vs the run. If you slant a 6 technique end to the outside and bring a safety down outside of him, you have just made yourself extremely vunerable.

Yep, and as long as that plays out accordingly - I wouldn't have a problem with that.

You'd just learn not to gamble like that unless the offense is being that predictable, etc. It's like if I called a Dime against a power-I set. I'd get gashed if the game plays out correctly - and I'd learn "don't call Dime against the run".

But, to me, that's not an argument against tiered play call. It just means, you better know what you're doing or be prepared to struggle until you learn what you're doing.

That said, I wouldn't mind if the game made "suggestions" based on real defensive play call principles. So if you slanted outside, the run defenses would have options that keep you sound and stable against many situations. That way the User couldn't put their LBs in an Under, crash the DL that way, shift them that way and then rotate the safeties there as well, leaving one side of the field so wide open that simply flipping the play on offense would burn you for 6.

That could be an option. "Hardcore Tier" for those who want, and accept the risks of, full control over all tiers. "Suggested Tier" for those who want the creativity of tiered play call while wanting a safety valve of sorts to make sure they are calling sound defenses, and the "Conventional" for those who like the traditional play call system.

[LBzrule]

Sim gamers do not want a more complex game. The complex stuff we want is the stuff the developers are PAID to do. Outside of that there is nothing complex about what we want, no more complex than the game already is. I want to call a line stunt. The only complexity with that lies on the programmers, not the user. I want coverage shells, that's not complex for me as a user, that's complex for the programmers. Well they are getting PAID for that complexity.

[bigeastbumrush]

What is tiered play calling?

[aspengc8]

Quote: Originally Posted by LBzrule

Sim gamers do not want a more complex game. The complex stuff we want is the stuff the developers are PAID to do. Outside of that there is nothing complex about what we want, no more complex than the game already is. I want to call a line stunt. The only complexity with that lies on the programmers, not the user. I want coverage shells, that's not complex for me as a user, that's complex for the programmers. Well they are getting PAID for that complexity.

The problem is the developers themselves may not understand football at that level. I've thought this for years seeing the "filler" plays in these playbooks.. some of the dumbest play designs every. Most NFL teams run the same passing concepts, just out of different formations, and the playbooks should reflect that. For example, there's no reason why I-form and ACE shouldn't have the same basic plays like inside/outside zone, toss, counter, maybe a sprint draw.. and some similiar passing concepts like curl/flat, hitch/corner, levels, stick, snag, china, etc. If we can't even get uniformity on that, theres no way they will nail tiered play calling.

[D_Fos]

I would be happy if they just fixed the ongoing issues w/ Madden and steered away from all of these new game modes for awhile. What I wish isn't eye catching enough for them to actually focus on I guess.

[shttymcgee]

Quote: Originally Posted by Ky3217

Because teams actually do it in real life?

No, its packaged. Maybe some pop warner or HS coach does that somewhere, but that is not the way it is done. You, and anybody else, can think what you want, but it just isn't. Lots of posters like to talk about how they've "studied" a bunch of playbooks, probably that they downloaded off the internet. Maybe they've come across some call-sheets too. If coordinators called fronts and coverages separately on the fly, the call sheet would just be three columns, one for the DL, one for the LB's and one for the DB's and you could just pick one thing from each column.

Also, just because defenses are normally "called" (really named) front first, its the back end of the defense that really determines what you can do up front.

The answer is to add the ability to make create your own defenses outside of gameplay. If you also had the ability to have more sub-categories in your defensive playbook, by personnel, I would think that people would be more happy.

You can not say you want sim if you also want tiered playcalling, with each "tier" mutually exclusive form the others. I hate the argument that you should be able to do it and that it just wouldn't work. That's not sim. I don't think anyone would want the ability to put all 7 position players in the infield (or outfield) in a baseball game, the ability to slant line/LB's and DB's all to the same side of the field is just as bad as my stupid baseball analogy. It's a football sim, not the scene from the scene from the Waterboy, when the defense lined everybody up on one side of the ball.

Football is much more complex than many people give it credit for. It's not anything that can't be comprehended (it's not rocket science), but there's such a prevailing opinion of so many people that they think they know what's going on, but they really don't.

I'm not addressing anyone in particular (except the person I'm replying to who said "that's how it's done in real life) so, please don't be offended.

Each of us is entitled to our own opinion and everyone's is just as good as mine. I just really don't feel that this feature should be added and to go along with that, I felt this was one of the things the "other" game did wrong, even though it did alot better than Madden.

[shttymcgee]

Quote: Originally Posted by bigeastbumrush

What is tiered play calling?

I've always thought of it as calling the front first (stunt/twist/etc), then calling the coverage/blitz after calling the personnel (4-3, nickel, etc.)

[shttymcgee]

Quote: Originally Posted by aspengc8

The problem is the developers themselves may not understand football at that level. I've thought this for years seeing the "filler" plays in these playbooks.. some of the dumbest play designs every. Most NFL teams run the same passing concepts, just out of different formations, and the playbooks should reflect that. For example, there's no reason why I-form and ACE shouldn't have the same basic plays like inside/outside zone, toss, counter, maybe a sprint draw.. and some similiar passing concepts like curl/flat, hitch/corner, levels, stick, snag, china, etc. If we can't even get uniformity on that, theres no way they will nail tiered play calling.

I'd be happier if they could just get a zone play to actually look like a zone play.