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The Beauty of Player Development in Madden 13

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Old 08-21-2012, 04:15 PM   #33
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Re: The Beauty of Player Development in Madden 13

Quote:
Originally Posted by rbowers7
1) I think you got that wrong. Not 100% sure though. Not sure how to accurately explain it to you.

2) No, everyone can not be elite. Get a 50 ovr WR 7th round, even with a good season, it would take years to make him elite (in terms of overall) and not focus on the other areas of the team.

3) Yeah... lol

and regression I have seen a lot of confusion, guess we will have to see first hands.

God I hope regression is decent. I kept M10 but guys like Desean Jackson are in their 15th year with about a 95 ovr. From the way it sounds not much changed thru M12 at least.

That 2nd point you guys are making seems great for us actually judging a players potential for ourselves now instead of looking at a predetermined grade for it. If you get a 70 ovr WR in the 6th or 70th, and he has speed & decent hands you can see for yourself if you can work on his route running and maybe awareness to build on him. If you draft a 50 something ovr WR you can pretty much say that player will not make it far I guess. I didn't like the idea at first, but if it comes together like that and isn't too easy to gain XP with everybody, it could really be great.
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Old 08-21-2012, 04:16 PM   #34
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Re: The Beauty of Player Development in Madden 13

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Originally Posted by aksumite
The first part of this statement I disagree with, respectfully. You said "no strength or speed can make you succeed in the game."

If this was true, NFL teams wouldn't be dreaming of getting Usain Bolt to sign with them.

I used Randy Moss as an example because I thought he was a good example of someone who did NOT practice as hard as say a Jerry Rice who probably had slightly less god given ability but managed to generate better career achievements because he (Rice) did practice harder. So Moss would be the example you hate where even just catching 300yrds and 2 TDs for the year he would still progress 6 points overall. That is just god given ability. It's real.

Where I agree with you is the production part. If a player is producing, then he should progress. The question is what is progressing? For example no amount of hard work will ever make Wes Welker as "fast" as Moss or as "strong" as Ray Lewis......but perhaps his awareness, his catching, etc could go up.
Okay, If Bolt signed with an NFL team, and had no hand-eye coordination, no toughness, no understanding how to dodge defenders, follow blocks, carry the ball correctly, get vertical as well as lateral, read defenses, react to players moving around him, having the overall toughness, and will to go over the middle, etc. they would release him in a week.

Want some examples that make you case weak?

4.24: Chris Johnson, RB, East Carolina (2008)
4.28: Jerome Mathis, WR, Hampton (2005)
4.28: Jacoby Ford, WR, Clemson (2010)
4.29: Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, CB, Tennessee State (2008)
4.29: Stanford Routt, CB, Houston (2005)
4.29: Fabian Washington, CB, Nebraska (2005)
4:30: Darrius Heyward-Bey, WR, Maryland (2009)
4.30: Yamon Figurs, WR, Kansas State (2007)
4.30: Darrent Williams, CB, Oklahoma State (2005)
4.31: Tyvon Branch, CB, Connecticut (2008)
4.31: Justin King, CB, Penn State (2008)
4.31: Jonathan Joseph, CB, South Carolina (2006)
4.31: Aaron Lockett, WR, Kansas State (2002)
4.31: Santana Moss, WR, Miami (Fla.) (2001)

4 or 5 starters of 14. They have the SPEED right? Should make them good.

2010 Draft
4.28: Jacoby Ford, WR, Clemson
4.34: Trindon Holliday, Return Specialist, LSU
4.35: Jahvid Best, RB, California
4.37: C.J. Spiller, RB, Clemson
4.40: Dorin Dickerson, TE, Pittsburgh
4.41: Taylor Price, WR, Ohio
4:41: Emmanuel Sanders, WR, Southern Methodist
4.42: Golden Tate, WR, Notre Dame
4.43: Brandon Banks, WR, Kansas State
4.43: Taylor Mays, S, Southern California
4.43: Ben Tate, RB, Auburn
4.43: Kyle Williams, WR, Arizona State

They should all be starting or at least loathed over right?

Why is Devin Hester a GOOD return man but not WR? He has good speed shouldn't that do it for him?

There are more skill position STARTERS in the NFL that didn't place the top

Jason Hill, Yamon Figures, Ty Hill, Mike Walker, David Clowney, Chad Jackson, Willie Reid, Justin King, Trindon Holidae, DaMarcus Van ****, etc. . . they should all be starters because they are fast right?

Shall I goto high strength guys that aren't doing anything in the NFL?

Tank Tyler, Manuel Ramerez, Vernon Gholston (top 10 pick), Trevor Laws, Louis Vasquez, Terrance Taylor, Mitch Petrus, Jeff Owens,

Why aren't all of these guys pro-bowlers or starting in the NFL ?

They all have the strength or speed. . . that's all team care about right?

My point is there's much more to football than SPEED or STRENGTH, this is not what teams only look for, and that's not what makes a football player what he is.

Is Randy Moss naturally fast, yes. . . if he gained weight and wasn't an NFL player but wanted to be a hot dog eating contestant would he be slower? Yes.

Can speed be taught or improved, yes, it can.

Weight and Height are the only two limitations madden should have in the ratings or editing scales.

And again, NO SPEED OR STRENGTH CAN MAKE YOU SUCCESSFUL IN THE NFL.

There's much more to it. If Randy Moss couldn't catch a ball, and Ray Lewis was always out of position their speed or strength would be useless.
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Old 08-21-2012, 04:19 PM   #35
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Re: The Beauty of Player Development in Madden 13

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Originally Posted by kwpit79
Exactly, people keep pointing to Tom Brady's and Victor Cruz's of the world, but those guys are extremely rare.

I still think what's going to happen is we're all going to have stacked teams after five seasons or so; that's why I liked the potential cap. We'll see.
I'm sure there is a points system that doesn't make everyone a 99. I gaurentee you have to make sacrifices to make bad players better.
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Old 08-21-2012, 04:20 PM   #36
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Re: The Beauty of Player Development in Madden 13

A question mark surrounding the xp/progression system is the player development.

In one of RynoAid's vid's he does some scouting and for 5000 xp, you can unlock a players 'Development'.

My guess is that it's tied into how fast a player earns XP.
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Old 08-21-2012, 04:20 PM   #37
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Re: The Beauty of Player Development in Madden 13

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Originally Posted by rbowers7
Also I do not think you understand how the system works. Speed is one of the most, if not hardest attribute to boost. They have already said it takes TONS of XP to increase speed and if you spend all point on speed, the rest of stuff will suffer.

Position players that use speed more will cost more than oline who does not matter if they're fast.
I was making a generalization. Maybe the cheese attribute isn't speed but something else. Maybe strength or any number of other attributes. The point is, if a mechanic and it's related rating don't function right in-game people will catch on and ignore that attribute. Ratings have to matter this year since you're investing time improving them. They also have to matter because XP is determined by stats. We can't have any more "ratings don't matter" discussions because it will kill CCM. There has to be a reason to want to increase a DB's man coverage rating. If the rating doesn't affect simmed games and really has no effect on gameplay then there is NEVER a point to put time into increasing it. Thus it will go towards other ratings. Each rating needs to reflect some form of sim stat or gameplay element otherwise the XP system is useless. Why inflate ratings that don't matter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TeamBuilder
You make a good point. The way I play helps gives ratings meaning. I play on "slow" game speed with speed threshold set to zero. I'm not sure if it's something you would personally consider but I highly recommend it.
This is what everyone's been mentioning is that they can play to their style. You want to air raid it? Improve your QB's and receivers. Want a strong run game? Improve your O-line and backs.
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Old 08-21-2012, 04:23 PM   #38
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Re: The Beauty of Player Development in Madden 13

Can't wait. Love offline franchise. This seems like a step in the right direction.
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Old 08-21-2012, 04:24 PM   #39
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Re: The Beauty of Player Development in Madden 13

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Originally Posted by TeamBuilder
^ This makes for an interesting argument and I see your point. However I do believe that if circumstances play out correctly anyone talented enough to make an NFL roster may become elite at the position they play.

Let's take Tom Brady for example. He does not possess elite physical talents, but the system he was in at New England played to his strengths and allowed him to develop into an elite player with a HOF career.

Now I understand your argument implies that there is a God-given limit of potential on a person that they realistically cannot exceed (and you may be right). But I think there are situations that offer variables that may alter that limit (such as an offensive or defensive system someone plays in that maximizes their specific talents, or the confidence one receives when excelling at a task that promotes further growth).

The new XP system in Madden 13 may not be the perfect solution, but I think it does make for a more realistic system than the fixed potential system (where Donny Moore determined how good a player can be).

I agree with this 100%.....

I will also say I believe Tom Brady may not be athletically gifted but he certainly in my opinion has the MENTAL capacity (as well as Accuracy) that allows him to flourish at the level he does. A mental capacity that simply may NEVER be achievable for a guy like Ryan Leaf.....
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Old 08-21-2012, 04:31 PM   #40
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Re: The Beauty of Player Development in Madden 13

Of course I can't be 100% sure but I've never thought that all of those redundant ratings that each player in madden actually mattered but the great thing about this new system is that we'll find out once and for all which ones do matter as I'm sure they'll be XPensive. heh
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