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Pre-determined Outcomes (A.K.A. Super Linebackers) in M13

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Old 08-22-2012, 01:28 PM   #65
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Re: Pre-determined Outcomes (A.K.A. Super Linebackers) in M13

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadman
Maybe I'm confused and not understanding things in laymen's terms, so, this is on me, not anyone else.

If you attempt a bullet pass 30 yds downfield or more, which I consider to be a bomb, isn't the chances greater of a LB leaping vs lobbing the ball downfield. I see A-Rod all the time lobbing bombs down field over out-stretched hands and arms.

Just trying to understand this.
A bullet pass to a guy that's 30 yards down field should actually have a high trajectory. Not to mention, QB's release with a high arm angle -- one reason being to clear the defenders.

The problem I've noticed is that the programming logic seems to override what the actual trajectory would have been. There is a linebacker between points A and B. A being the QB and B is the receiver's assumed catching point.

The issue is that a LB between point A and B is only in a flat line between those points (if we were walking between the points). However, the ball is traveling from points A to B on plane that arcs vertically and then drops (which should clear the linebacker).

What is happening (based on my observation) is that the game is programming the INT at the instant I press my button to pass because the LB is directly "in line" (in flat linear terms) with the path of my QB and the receiving point -- but not actually in the traveling path of the football.

In order for that pre-determined animation to play out, the game then augments the pass trajectory from what my input suggested. The game does this so that it can complete the interception animation that was pre-determined.

This isn't about "super linebackers." That is a symptom of the programming issue at hand.

Action A leads to Result Z, then the game fills in B through Y to make "Z" seem realistic. I feel like this is how the game works. It's not dynamic in the sense of chain reactions.

Instead of chain reactions we get "fill in the middle".

Last edited by jmik58; 08-22-2012 at 01:32 PM.
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Old 08-22-2012, 01:34 PM   #66
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Re: Pre-determined Outcomes (A.K.A. Super Linebackers) in M13

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmik58
A bullet pass to a guy that's 30 yards down field should actually have a high trajectory. Not to mention, QB's release with a high arm angle -- one reason being to clear the defenders.

The problem I've noticed is that the programming logic seems to override what the actual trajectory would have been. There is a linebacker between points A and B. A being the QB and B is the receiver's assumed catching point.

The issue is that a LB between point A and B is only in a flat line between those points (if we were walking between the points). However, the ball is traveling from points A to B on plane that arcs vertically and then drops (which should clear the linebacker).

What is happening (based on my observation) is that the game is programming the INT at the instant I press my button to pass because the LB is directly "in line" with the path of the football (in flat linear terms).

In order for that pre-determined animation to play out, the game then augments the pass trajectory from what my input suggested. The game does this so that it can complete the interception animation that was pre-determined.

This isn't about "super linebackers." That is a symptom of the programming issue at hand.

Action A leads to Result Z, then the game fills in B through Y to make "Z" seem realistic. I feel like this is how the game works. It's not dynamic in the sense of chain reactions.

Instead of chain reactions we get "fill in the middle".
Okay, thanks, understood, I think of bullet passes going in a straight line, like a curl or square in, square out.

If my eyes see a LB, Safety or CB in line with a pass, I use the stick and loft it over the defenders head.

Like Broncos said, maybe it's because I've been playing NCAA since day 1??

By the way, you did a great job of explaining, thank you.

Last edited by roadman; 08-22-2012 at 01:36 PM.
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Old 08-22-2012, 01:35 PM   #67
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Re: Pre-determined Outcomes (A.K.A. Super Linebackers) in M13

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmik58
A bullet pass to a guy that's 30 yards down field should actually have a high trajectory. Not to mention, QB's release with a high arm angle -- one reason being to clear the defenders.

The problem I've noticed is that the programming logic seems to override what the actual trajectory would have been. There is a linebacker between points A and B. A being the QB and B is the receiver's assumed catching point.

The issue is that a LB between point A and B is only in a flat line between those points (if we were walking between the points). However, the ball is traveling from points A to B on plane that arcs vertically and then drops (which should clear the linebacker).

What is happening (based on my observation) is that the game is programming the INT at the instant I press my button to pass because the LB is directly "in line" (in flat linear terms) with the path of my QB and the receiving point -- but not actually in the traveling path of the football.

In order for that pre-determined animation to play out, the game then augments the pass trajectory from what my input suggested. The game does this so that it can complete the interception animation that was pre-determined.

This isn't about "super linebackers." That is a symptom of the programming issue at hand.

Action A leads to Result Z, then the game fills in B through Y to make "Z" seem realistic. I feel like this is how the game works. It's not dynamic in the sense of chain reactions.

Instead of chain reactions we get "fill in the middle".
Just thinking this too....

Btw I use buttons to pass. maybe that is why I am seeing super high INT jumps and some of you aren't?

I also think a bullet pass still has to have the proper height to it. I don't mind seeing low pass trajectory INT's, just don't want to see super jumps to grab them. Want it to play out like a short or low pass....

Last edited by wheelman990; 08-22-2012 at 01:39 PM.
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Old 08-22-2012, 01:37 PM   #68
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Re: Pre-determined Outcomes (A.K.A. Super Linebackers) in M13

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Originally Posted by wheelman990
Just thinking this....and btw I use buttons to pass. maybe that is why I am seeing super high INT jumps and some of you aren't?

I also think a bullet pass still has to have the proper height to it.
Left stick=trajectories. Up is loft, low bullet, right left to lead receivers.
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Old 08-22-2012, 01:41 PM   #69
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Re: Pre-determined Outcomes (A.K.A. Super Linebackers) in M13

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadman
Left stick=trajectories. Up is loft, low bullet, right left to lead receivers.
Oh, nevermind....I'm using left stick...thought there was a right stick pass I wasn't aware of...sorry!

I thought up and down were just leading receiver too though! Seams like when I push down receiver kinda come back a bit towards the line to reach the pass. Up seams to lead them down the field...
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Old 08-22-2012, 01:41 PM   #70
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Re: Pre-determined Outcomes (A.K.A. Super Linebackers) in M13

i have to admit, ive never encountered super lb on the demo at all. i actually applauded EA for this cuz it opens up a ton of routes that would never work due to super lb's. this is coming from a '12 player who still plays it every day and sees it in every single game on '12.

not sure what the issue is thats making it happen for u. maybe ur on all madden...or what i call cpu god mode where honestly they cheat and do anything to nerf u and hype their skills up. i play on all pro with sliders. however in the demo i left sliders alone and was just playing vanilla all pro.
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Old 08-22-2012, 01:43 PM   #71
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Re: Pre-determined Outcomes (A.K.A. Super Linebackers) in M13

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmik58
A bullet pass to a guy that's 30 yards down field should actually have a high trajectory. Not to mention, QB's release with a high arm angle -- one reason being to clear the defenders.

The problem I've noticed is that the programming logic seems to override what the actual trajectory would have been. There is a linebacker between points A and B. A being the QB and B is the receiver's assumed catching point.

The issue is that a LB between point A and B is only in a flat line between those points (if we were walking between the points). However, the ball is traveling from points A to B on plane that arcs vertically and then drops (which should clear the linebacker).

What is happening (based on my observation) is that the game is programming the INT at the instant I press my button to pass because the LB is directly "in line" (in flat linear terms) with the path of my QB and the receiving point -- but not actually in the traveling path of the football.

In order for that pre-determined animation to play out, the game then augments the pass trajectory from what my input suggested. The game does this so that it can complete the interception animation that was pre-determined.

This isn't about "super linebackers." That is a symptom of the programming issue at hand.

Action A leads to Result Z, then the game fills in B through Y to make "Z" seem realistic. I feel like this is how the game works. It's not dynamic in the sense of chain reactions.

Instead of chain reactions we get "fill in the middle".
Pre-determined outcomes - thank you for nailing quite possibly my biggest beef with Madden and explaining it better than I ever have.
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Old 08-22-2012, 01:59 PM   #72
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Re: Pre-determined Outcomes (A.K.A. Super Linebackers) in M13

Quote:
Originally Posted by Broncos86
You still have to adhere to the throwing motion of the QB. So if you just tap the button quickly, the QB still has to go through the motion. But you'll get a lob. Whereas if you just infinitely hold the button down, he'll throw a bullet at the end of his throwing motion.

So as soon as you start pressing, the throwing motion begins. The amount you hold it down during that time will determine the throw.
You are absolutely right sir and thanks for that explanation. To anybody else that was wondering about this, check this video at around 11:25 until 11:48, that is precisely how the devs explains it. Thanks Broncos.

http://livestre.am/1o8XO




Quote:
Originally Posted by Broncos86
I don't have issues throwing over defenders if the positioning is right. I don't have linebackers squatting in the middle of the field, grabbing throws to receivers 15 yards behind them. I make that seam route toss with success.
Again, I don't doubt that you are able to make those throws or that anyone can learn how to make them as well. However, I was trying to point out that those "super LB" animations are still in the game, it's just that they can be more easily avoided with the new additions to the pass mechanics.

So OP, you are correct that "super LBs" can occur but the devs have provided a much better UI in the passing mechanics for User to avoid them. Here is another video at around the 44:08 mark until 46:16. Here the dev really goes into detail about throwing over defenders and has video for examples.

http://youtu.be/Wt83qE-egXM

I think this is a really good thread because it hopefully exposes others to the fact that even though "super LB" animations are in the game and can be triggered, we have been given the tools to avoid it happening. Many of us will have to break old Madden passing habits because now a lob pass is actually effective in throwing over defenders because it will take a realistic path to the intended receiver but it will be a slower ball speed than a touch pass or bullet.

So if the OP or anybody else wants to completely avoid "super LB" animations they can choose to just throw lobs but the downside is the pass will get there slower than using a touch pass. The downside to using a touch pass is that it requires better timing of the release but if successful, it will arrive faster. Seems like a nice realistic risk/reward aspect to the passing but again, hopefully next year the "super LB" animation are addressed so even bad passes result in more realistic outcomes, like tips and broken up passes, not instant INTs.
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