A Video Example Of Why Player Movement And Stamina Must Be Addressed

[DaveDQ]

This has been an issue with Madden for sometime, but I always thought you could only pull it off in Pro difficulty. I played my first 3 online ranked games the other night and noticed how easy it was for a quick guy to just step outside of a defender without performing an offensive maneuver (juke/spin etc.).

[RGiles36]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

Serious question, how can anyone see something like this and really claim that Madden is trying to be as realistic as reasonably possible?

It can still be claimed that Madden is trying to be realistic because we knew going into M13 that player movement (and OL/DL) would not get the overhauls that they need. As horrid as that video is, what's remotely surprising about it given what we already knew about M13 months ago?

As disappointed as I have been with the bugs in M13, I still contend that overall they are taking this game in a more realistic direction. Some things I don't agree with from a realism POV (how roster updates are adminstered for example), but overall, I do believe the game is moving in a more sim direction.

In the short term,it might be a good idea to up your speed threshold to guard against stuff like that. Pursuit angles improve on higher settings, and the wonky stuff seen in that video is not so prevalent. Clearly, higher thresholds are more difficult for your use as you tend to play ranked online where I believe default settings are the only option.

[ghettogeeksta]

Just played the Fifa 13 demo, the Madden dev teams needs to go across the hallway and ask them how to do player movement/foot-planting, because they just don't get it.

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by RGiles36

It can still be claimed that Madden is trying to be realistic because we knew going into M13 that player movement (and OL/DL) would not get the overhauls that they need. As horrid as that video is, what's remotely surprising about it given what we already knew about M13 months ago? As disappointed as I have been with the bugs in M13, I still contend that overall they are taking this game in a more realistic direction. Some things I don't agree with from a realism POV (how roster updates are adminstered for example), but overall, I do believe the game is moving in a more sim direction. In the short term,it might be a good idea to up your speed threshold to guard against stuff like that. Pursuit angles improve on higher settings, and the wonky stuff seen in that video is not so prevalent. Clearly, higher thresholds are more difficult for your use as you tend to play ranked online where I believe default settings are the only option.

I disagree with this concerning player movement because it's too fundamental to this video game. I could accept that concerning OL/DL because I figure it's likely a complex undertaking with the current OL/DL being scripted together, according to some posters that have been down to Tiburon. However, to allow Madden 13 out of Tiburon without any method, option or setting for Users to do something about it or no plans that I knwo of to even patch this, while claiming they want Madden to be as realistic as possible, is a complete contradiction.

I disagreed with the way many things were implemented under Ian's Creative Director tenure BUT at least he attempted to address player movement right off the bat in M10. I have been heartened by the things I read Cam Weber state and don't have anything personal against any of the Madden team but to ignore player movement, right out the gate, gives me the impression that it's meant to be this way.

What's in those videos is not some subjective grey area of a different POV on achievable realism in Madden. That is a clear example of the player movement being broken, in terms of being reasonably realistic. No reasonable person would look at that and say "yeah, that's close enough to real life" so i don't understand why that would be in a game, claiming to try to be realistic.

I am not coming at you Rgiles or anyone else for that matter but I just don't understand how anyone can continue to claim reasonable achievable NFL realism as a goal for Madden, considering they would release M13 with this as the only representation of player movement.

[RGiles36]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

What's in those videos is not some subjective grey area of a different POV on achievable realism in Madden. That is a clear example of the player movement being broken, in terms of being reasonably realistic. No reasonable person would look at that and say "yeah, that's close enough to real life" so i don't understand why that would be in a game, claiming to try to be realistic.

I get all of that Big -- player movement is paramount to a sim experience. But this debate (or what have you) is no different than anything that's been said on the topic months ago. If you've been around long enough, you know that not everything that NEEDS to be addressed each year is not ALWAYS going to be addressed. Just the way it goes.

Let's say player movement is addressed next year and everyone loves it; does that somehow mean they were aiming for sim in M14 but not M13? Not exactly -- all it means that they had a set of priorities both years and they made decisions based off of those priorities. How you or I would personally rank the priorities is almost irrelevant.

All that matters is the things that we want in the game are identical to the things that Tiburon wants in the game. The order in which we get there does not determine whether their overarching goals are realistic or unrealistic.

[huskerwr38]

But what I don't understand is that in Madden 11 (I think) they used FIFA's locomotion system and in all previous next gen Maddens they had better footplanting, etc.. Why has it gotten worse in Madden 12 and Madden 13.

Quote:

But this debate (or what have you) is no different than anything that's been said on the topic months ago. If you've been around long enough, you know that not everything that NEEDS to be addressed each year is not ALWAYS going to be addressed. Just the way it goes.

Also, for people who haven't bought Madden in a few years this is probably a huge difference. If I went from Madden 11 to this, I would be like whooooaaa, what happened? Why is the locomotion so much worse and footplanting non existent? It really is an eye sore.

[FinnZzgo]

Quote: Originally Posted by RGiles36

I get all of that Big -- player movement is paramount to a sim experience. But this debate (or what have you) is no different than anything that's been said on the topic months ago. If you've been around long enough, you know that not everything that NEEDS to be addressed each year is not ALWAYS going to be addressed. Just the way it goes. Let's say player movement is addressed next year and everyone loves it; does that somehow mean they were aiming for sim in M14 but not M13? Not exactly -- all it means that they had a set of priorities both years and they made decisions based off of those priorities. How you or I would personally rank the priorities is almost irrelevant. All that matters is the things that we want in the game are identical to the things that Tiburon wants in the game. The order in which we get there does not determine whether their overarching goals are realistic or unrealistic.

I think everyone is just tired of hearing excuses..Its pretty simple really, Bad "Core"Game engine = Bad game,The infinity engine is just layered over the already bad core game engine.I dont think EA's current core game engine can fix the player movement issues,it can only be tuned...

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by RGiles36

I get all of that Big -- player movement is paramount to a sim experience. But this debate (or what have you) is no different than anything that's been said on the topic months ago. If you've been around long enough, you know that not everything that NEEDS to be addressed each year is not ALWAYS going to be addressed. Just the way it goes. Let's say player movement is addressed next year and everyone loves it; does that somehow mean they were aiming for sim in M14 but not M13? Not exactly -- all it means that they had a set of priorities both years and they made decisions based off of those priorities. How you or I would personally rank the priorities is almost irrelevant. All that matters is the things that we want in the game are identical to the things that Tiburon wants in the game. The order in which we get there does not determine whether their overarching goals are realistic or unrealistic.

The bold, while true, is not the core issue I am referring to. Player movement is core to a just about any video game, especially a football video game. No way they would release Madden, realistic or not, if the in-game players could not move. So however long the dev cycle is, they made sure during it that players could move because if not, there is no game. So if their goal is for Madden to be a realistic game, I don't understand how they can look at this type player movement the whole dev cycle and not do something about it. That just doesn't make sense in terms of wanting to build a realistic game because player movement is fundamental, so how do you build anything realistic on what's in those videos?

We have been repeatedly told that this year is a reboot, so again I understand that OL/DL was pretty much left as is, until they fundamentally address it. However, player movement is fundamental to everything for the game play they added this year, catching animations, physics, read n react, throwing a receiver open, QB movement, special teams, etc, so why would they add that on top of unrealistic player movement unless that's what they want going forward?

It could very well turn out you are right and they "fix" it next year but that seems like a disorganized way of going about it, imo.