Madden CCM Was Not Ready

[Big FN Deal]

As I read through this thread, I can't help but notice posters stating about how M13 is much better than M12 and how much improved CCM should be in M14, really? This sentiment seems to be setting the scene for Madden groundhog day yet again for M14. Someone please reference me to ONE next-gen Madden that has refined the features of its' predecessor before proceeding to add new flawed features. If history is any indicator, which it usually is, M14 will either still contain many of the same design flaws as M13 or completely remove the flawed systems, like online salary and add other new flawed features.

C'mon people, how many times do we keep watching this movie and expect the ending to change? For the record, I ain't even mad or hating on Madden, I am just calling it like I see it. The production of next-gen Madden, for whatever reason, is not about refining and improving the game or it's current features every year, like other top sports sims. It's about mass marketing using brand recognition, pop culture and adding theoretical innovative new features every year, rinse repeat. Likely, the team creating next-gen Madden sets the bar at meeting the goals set by their bosses, which obviously are satisfied because if not, those people creating the game wouldn't have jobs. So while those of us that enjoy playing NFL football games would like CCM to improve for M14, if EA/Tiburon is satisfied with where CCM is now and considers it a success for M13, it will likely be on to working on something else for M14.

[mestevo]

How many lead developers/etc have these other sports games gone through?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by mestevo

How many lead developers/etc have these other sports games gone through? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

I don't understand the context of this question. I don't work in the game development field but from what I understand, people moving on to other positions within it is not rare. My point was if those creating next-gen Madden were NOT making a product that their bosses found satisfactory, then those bosses would replace them. To put it another way, this entire console gen, the formula of adding new features but failing to flesh them out before adding more new features going forward will not likely be changing if the "brass" are happy with its' results.

[slick589]

2 years to work on ccm but apparently no time for QA. Seriously people were finding glitches in ccm an hour after they got the game. Im not sure how all these glitches slipped through the cracks.

Not only ccm but even the new physics engine. I feel like they did no quality testing at all and just let the name of the game sell it...and it did just that.

Going forward i dont see how they can fix the bugs and glitches in one dev cycle if they didnt even find these glitches when working on the mode for 2 plus years.

[pinksheets]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

As I read through this thread, I can't help but notice posters stating about how M13 is much better than M12 and how much improved CCM should be in M14, really? This sentiment seems to be setting the scene for Madden groundhog day yet again for M14. Someone please reference me to ONE next-gen Madden that has refined the features of its' predecessor before proceeding to add new flawed features. If history is any indicator, which it usually is, M14 will either still contain many of the same design flaws as M13 or completely remove the flawed systems, like online salary and add other new flawed features. C'mon people, how many times do we keep watching this movie and expect the ending to change? For the record, I ain't even mad or hating on Madden, I am just calling it like I see it. The production of next-gen Madden, for whatever reason, is not about refining and improving the game or it's current features every year, like other top sports sims. It's about mass marketing using brand recognition, pop culture and adding theoretical innovative new features every year, rinse repeat. Likely, the team creating next-gen Madden sets the bar at meeting the goals set by their bosses, which obviously are satisfied because if not, those people creating the game wouldn't have jobs. So while those of us that enjoy playing NFL football games would like CCM to improve for M14, if EA/Tiburon is satisfied with where CCM is now and considers it a success for M13, it will likely be on to working on something else for M14.

Bingo. I hate that EA/Tiburon seems to feel this pressure to reinvent the wheel in terms of features or interface, essentially changing the frame but not touching up the painting. I would be happy for M14 to be nothing more than an improvement on M13 with no new gimmicky features, just adding things that are legitimate parts of football gameplay or front office management. I get the whole casual fans being their market thing, but those fans don't buy the game because of new features, they buy it because they want to play a game of football here and there. Adding complexity to schemes or front office stuff might sound scary, but you can always just make certain things controlled by on/off functions. Not to get off -topic from the bugs, but it seems the bugs and lack of depth in certain areas are related, in that the constant shuffling of features seems to take up the time that could be better used refining the game to fix bugs and bizarre scenarios created by the CPU teams.

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by slick589

2 years to work on ccm but apparently no time for QA. Seriously people were finding glitches in ccm an hour after they got the game. Im not sure how all these glitches slipped through the cracks. Not only ccm but even the new physics engine. I feel like they did no quality testing at all and just let the name of the game sell it...and it did just that. Going forward i dont see how they can fix the bugs and glitches in one dev cycle if they didnt even find these glitches when working on the mode for 2 plus years.

That's just it though Slick, it's not about QA, imo, because if it was than EA Tiburon would get better QA. There is no way that laymans like many of us, find and clearly see this issues but not EA Tiburon, it's just they look at it from a profit perspective. Illustrator76 and others talked about "known shippable" before the release of M13 and I think that pretty much sums up what goes on with next-gen Madden. If it isn't what they consider "game breaking", ie hurting sales, it's not priority.

For example Fantasy Draft, that was something that seemed to threaten the masses rejecting the game, so that needed to be addressed immediately, despite it originally being an intentional design decision to leave out. As long as there is no massive dissatisfaction with the way new features are implemented into Madden, there is no incentive for EA Tiburon "fix" what ain't broke from a business POV. With M14 it will be on to the next new thing and that's a successful business model as long as EA has the NFL exclusive.

[slick589]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

That's just it though Slick, it's not about QA, imo, because if it was than EA Tiburon would get better QA. There is no way that laymans like many of us, find and clearly see this issues but not EA Tiburon, it's just they look at it from a profit perspective. Illustrator76 and others talked about "known shippable" before the release of M13 and I think that pretty much sums up what goes on with next-gen Madden. If it isn't what they consider "game breaking", ie hurting sales, it's not priority. For example Fantasy Draft, that was something that seemed to threaten the masses rejecting the game, so that needed to be addressed immediately, despite it originally being an intentional design decision to leave out. As long as there is no massive dissatisfaction with the way new features are implemented into Madden, there is no incentive for EA Tiburon "fix" what ain't broke from a business POV. With M14 it will be on to the next new thing and that's a successful business model as long as EA has the NFL exclusive.

Great points and i agree 100%. Its not just EA and madden that go the known shippable route but i feel like other companies still have more commitment to their consumers. I really feel that madden has sold out.

For years depending on your play style madden could be a sim of what you saw on sundays, you own personal fantasy league, or a shootout (cheese fest). But no matter how you played it you had fun doing it your way.

Then next gen came along and it became this is our game and you will play it how we see fit and CCM in 13 is kind of the epitome of that.

We know what EA is capable of adding to madden and ccm. Custom play books, hiring offense and defensive coordinators and special team coaches, player holdouts, pre season position battles, position changes, player personalities, hell even controlling the prices of tickets and concessions. All these things have been in madden at one point, but have been removed, bc imho they scare the casual gamers that has become the core audience for EA Sports and in particular Madden.

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by mestevo

How many lead developers/etc have these other sports games gone through?

The issue is EA's direction for Madden. Part of the reason for the changes is likely because the last lead's "innovations" didn't pan out. Someone's vision got three years to play out, and then, time to move on. That's an EA direction. If other sports games don't go through that, it's likely because their vision isn't focused on what "innovation" you can bring, but can you bring the game closer to being life-like? That's an on-going vision. It's like if a football team brought in a coach just to try to come up with some funky plays, and if they don't work, get a new coach with another set of funky ideas, etc, instead of one like LeBeau or someone who is grounded in the game with principals that work and knows how to use them.

If EA was gearing towards realism - there may not have been a need for so much change because football, at it's heart, is still the same game that works for the same reasons it always has. Just the way those principals are used is different, the players executing those principles are different. But they are like the team that's looking for an "edge" instead of realizing that excellent execution of the "tried-and-true" is an edge in and of itself.