In Game Momentum

[GiantBlue76]

I've noticed that the end of the game is insanely hard to stop the opposing team. I never play the CPU, but I know in league games, I can be up two scores with 3 minutes left and suddenly no one can cover on my defense and we can't get pressure. Then I'll give up successful inside kicks and end up losing despite dominating the entire game.

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by KingV2k3

Has anyone noticed that the "Nationally Televised" games seem to have another level of "momentum" attached to them?

Those and rivalry games (which is where I see it the most).

And, yes, it is a video game...but it would help a LOT of it was based more on football principles.

Just because it's rivals playing or a prime time game doesn't mean football becomes a completely different sport

[KingV2k3]

Quote: Originally Posted by KBLover

Those and rivalry games (which is where I see it the most). And, yes, it is a video game...but it would help a LOT of it was based more on football principles. Just because it's rivals playing or a prime time game doesn't mean football becomes a completely different sport

Totally agree...

And yes, my assertion that it's "a video game" has more to do with the fact that this happens to SOME degree with ALL the (handful of) titles I play...

It's not robo / comeback code / etc...it's just how the AI in these games sometimes resorts to some really questionable stuff in exchange for keeping it "competitive"...

I'm adept enough with sliders and settings to be able to weed all that "wha" stuff out, but then I win all the time and that's NO fun either...

I thought about it a bit more and it kind of evens out...

I win one or two a year in a manner that if the "shoe was on the other foot", I'd be arching an eyebrow...

I lose 2 or 3 in a similar manner...

The other 12 or so "feel" pretty tight, win or lose...so that's prob on par with IRL...

We all see things on"Any Given Sunday" (for instance) that we'd cry foul over if it was on the console...

I just hate when (like today) I could have pretty much "called the game" ahead of it actually unfolding...

It only happens once every couple seasons to this degree, so I just take a lot of breaks, walk away and keep reminding myself that sometimes, this is the ONLY way the CPU can get the W...

[CM Hooe]

Quote: Originally Posted by KBLover

There does seem to be an ebb and flow to the game. It may not be called "momentum" so that's why I don't necessarily take them at face value. Changes in DPP of the players can cause "momentum shifts", more than a few times if my QB (Pryor) starts hitting passes, he'll "be the hot hand" and I'm calling the same types of patterns and looking through the same progressions - I don't force the ball, look for high percentage throws, etc (with a 73 Acc, 61 AWR QB...AFTER spending significant XP - you almost have no choice). Sometimes Pryor starts the game on fire. I'm hitting 7-8 in a row. Then he gets sacked or hit as he throws or defense makes a play and deflects a pass - now all of that is gone and it's back to being hit-or-miss Pryor. I notice it with the CPU QBs and HBs as well. There can be (and imo are) a lot of coded possibilities that create "momentum" but it may not be one thing called "momentum code" (and I wonder about that physics momentum too...)

I don't doubt that DPP could have a profound effect on how a game plays out, particularly in such examples as you mentioned. That's what it's supposed to do, and I've noticed the same sort of ebbs and flows as well.

What I am referring to, what you alluded to in the latter part of your post, and what I am guessing is what Tiburon was responding to in its response to the question, is that there's no "rubberband AI" a la NBA JAM or NFL Blitz.

[CloudFuel]

I doubt they would admit it.

A lot of people play this game because they watch the games on TV and think they can either do the same as their favorites team or better and want to come show their stuff online.

I think, however, that the majority of people just enjoy the game and want to play it in a virtual setting. We would expect that the more knowledge you have of the game, your skills would increase, and you would begin to beat the h*** out of all the teams. That would then make the game boring/stale and EA would lose customers... and of course they can't have that.

---

In my book, there are way too many examples of this rubberband, momentum, scripted stuff for there to not be truth to it. I just can't see that many people making it up with detailed & unique stories. Also, I have fallen victim to this 'trickery' quite a few times.

I can't even count how many games I dominate the first half (35-7) only to find that in the 2nd half my team of all-stars has been replaced by a scrub high school team. In all honesty it's extremely annoying and I have a difficult time keeping my HULK-SMASH instinct dormant.. but at the same time there have been some really good/fun games because of it.

I wonder if the 'balancing' act is a direct reflection of how well you are doing? For example, I played a team and was up 35-7 and then they get every lucky break imaginable to make it nearly a tied game... in another scenario I was only up 17-7 and the team had some lucky breaks but not nearly as many nor as obvious as the 35-7 game.

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by CloudFuel

I I can't even count how many games I dominate the first half (35-7) only to find that in the 2nd half my team of all-stars has been replaced by a scrub high school team. In all honesty it's extremely annoying and I have a difficult time keeping my HULK-SMASH instinct dormant.. but at the same time there have been some really good/fun games because of it.

If I remember correctly, in M12 there were "game types" that governed this sort of thing (I think it was M12, maybe it was M10?).

-Tale of two halves (what you describe, one team dominates one half, other team strikes back in the other)

-Shoot out (high scoring, offenses have the advantage)

-Defensive (lower scoring, typically, although pick six/scoop-and-score can change that, both offenses tend to struggle)

Might have been more, like one for 4th quarter outbursts where both teams suddenly score often in the 4th, typically back and forth.

Wouldn't be surprised if the same was in M13.

[purplerat]

I don't doubt that DPP makes a difference. You throw a pick on your first possession and it's gonna be a tough day. Also there may be a momentum component, which IMO would be realistic. For example I had an CCM game against another user the other day where I was getting pretty well dominated but a series of big plays in the 4th quarter helped me secure a come from behind victory.

But I think much of what is seen as Momentum or the CPU deciding games is confirmation bias. People remember the games where there's a big comeback or series of seemingly scripted big plays but forget all the times the game just went "the way it was supposed to".

For example the guy who says he can't count the times he's lead big at the half only to have a big comeback... Well he's probably forgetting far more times when the other person just quit at the half or the game just ended up as a blowout. Especially in online non-CCM games, if a game goes all the way to the end it usually means it's a close game and people remember that. If the game is a blowout people quit/concede and that gets forgotten.

[Old School SD Fan]

Quote: Originally Posted by KBLover

If I remember correctly, in M12 there were "game types" that governed this sort of thing (I think it was M12, maybe it was M10?). -Tale of two halves (what you describe, one team dominates one half, other team strikes back in the other) -Shoot out (high scoring, offenses have the advantage) -Defensive (lower scoring, typically, although pick six/scoop-and-score can change that, both offenses tend to struggle) Might have been more, like one for 4th quarter outbursts where both teams suddenly score often in the 4th, typically back and forth. Wouldn't be surprised if the same was in M13.

Always been there. You'll have games where attributes be damned the CPU's inferior players will be glued to your guys all day. Don't tell me there isn't code that says "this game will be a defensive battle".

I've believed this for 10 years.