OFFLINE CCM---Highend Sliders vs Lowend

[D_Fos]

Just wanna know everyones thoughts on this.

Highend = 75 and over
Lowend= 25 and under

I know the All-Madden "rule of thumb"(75 total and under for each category, Passing, Running, Pass D, Run D) from years past. However, this means NOTHING in M13, why,

For one,
Kicker Meter speed isn't dependent upon this rule any more. I have the All-Madden speed kick meter and my Sliders are
50/75
User/CPU

and another thing is,
Post-Patch 3: the Default All-Madden Set is NO LONGER all 25s for the User Slider Skills, some areas are 50 for the User skills, WR CTH and some others. I'm referring to the,
Passing
WR Cth:

Running
etc.
Default All-Madden on M13, is,
50 for the user skills in a few areas.

Also, lastly,

Another aspect of this game that I love is BACK!!!!

I can throw on the Run again w/ the likes of RG3, Rus Wilson, Cam!

When I was testing all of the Lowerend QBA sliders(others seem to adore)
I found that, When I was throwing on the Run, the balls would be so errant, almost like RG3 was not an AVG of High 80 and Low 90s for almost all the important QB Attributes. Throw ACC(short, med, long), PA, Throw on the run.

Now, by flipping my All-Madden Set,

Now w/ a base set of

User/CPU
50/75

50(imo) allows me(user) to utilize my players to the full ratings potential. My Qbs can be utilized, as intended with ratings mattering AGAIN!!

Imo, Lowend Sliders= diminishing ratings
Highend Sliders= increasing ratings


Thats why the Highend sliders allow the CPU to pull off plays and moves that just are not found as often on Lowend sliders.

Now this is just imo,
Not factual, I could be crazy!!

However, I'm not with all the slider changing ANYMORE! I can raise BTK 2 notches, and it would totally change how effective the run games are. I can do little tweaks and get the results I'm looking for now!

Whats your thoughts?
Highend Sliders or Lowend?

Have you tested both?
I have. http://www.operationsports.com/forum...3-realism.html

Merry Christmas!!!

[onac22]

I agree the only slider I touch now is speed threshold and I put that one down to 0. Just makes acceleration more important. Other than that all of the ratings get used and the game plays a little better IMO. Plus the added bonus of not spending the majority of my time worrying that the LT isn't blocking right. Instead I just worry about my game.

[D_Fos]

Quote: Originally Posted by onac22

I agree the only slider I touch now is speed threshold and I put that one down to 0. Just makes acceleration more important. Other than that all of the ratings get used and the game plays a little better IMO. Plus the added bonus of not spending the majority of my time worrying that the LT isn't blocking right. Instead I just worry about my game.

Its works great for my user sliders having all 50s on O.
I'm still giving the CPU a 25% boost in sliders skills w/ them having a base of 75.

[Jarodd21]

Quote: Originally Posted by D_Fos

and another thing is, Post-Patch 3: the Default All-Madden Set is NO LONGER all 25s for the User Slider Skills, some areas are 50 for the User skills, WR CTH and some others. I'm reffering to the, Passing WR Cth: Running etc. Default All-Madden on M13, is, 50 for the user skills in a few areas.

Just because EA took the easy way out after the 3rd patch by raising the catching to 50 instead of tuning the catching at 25 doesn't mean the same rules don't apply with the 75 and under rule. Yeah the kicking meter goes fast but the gameplay is still weak on default All-Madden for most people when going over the 75 point limit. It's been tested by countless people. Detriot Style said he wasn't a believer in that until he raised one of his sliders just one point over there 75 point limit. It's not hard to see.

That's why you saw alot of people talking about how they were blowing the CPU out on default All-Madden after the 3rd patch was because of EA raising the catching and breaktackles to 50. It ruined the TRUE all-madden gameplay when they raised those two areas. I'm not going to tell you what to believe or not but it's obvious with all the sliders around here using the 75 and under rule that anything above that doesn't provide a challenge for most people.

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by D_Fos

Imo, Lowend Sliders= diminishing ratings Highend Sliders= increasing ratings

I disagree with this to an extent.

I use QB Acc at 11 for me and 21 for CPU. I see ratings still mattering. Every QB does not suck. I use Pryor, I use a better QB - I see and feel the difference. I don't think I'm "lowering" their ratings. I'm challenging the accuracy skill and increasing the scope/impact of small mistakes. The CPU can still make plays on lower settings. I use the same type of sliders for both user and CPU and guys are losing, having good CPU players make plays on them both offense and defense, tight games, varied game flow, etc.

I throw on the run with Terrelle Pryor - and he's like a poor man's RG3. He can do it...within reason. I wouldn't take him and his 75 TOR and 75s Acc and try to throw it deep on the run (actually, I wouldn't do that with RG3 either - I'd buy time, let him set his feet and throw, otherwise, I'd just keep running...and that's what RG3 seems to do in real life).

I used RG3 a couple times (enough to know I want him in my Oakland CC *sigh*) and didn't have much issue throwing on the run with my set. The passes were "close enough" and if I make the right read on the run, threaten the LOS and make defenders run to me, I can find space. Did it with Pryor, pushed the LOS, the safety came up to challenge me, and I zipped it by him, that step or two making the difference (his ballhawk move failed).

Tried it in the Super Bowl, but Carlos Rogers wasn't having it - he made the play.


To me,

Lower sliders = stressing that skill more. Low QBA will stress/test a QB's accuracy ratings more. You may need higher acc to complete tougher throws - or use the L-stick, or have to keep that QBs feet firmly on the ground, or just not throw that pass, while a better S/M/DAC QB could make that throw off his back foot or while on the run, or fit it into the tight window. Lower sliders seem better at exposing who sucks at something because these players are already questionable, then you put stress on that skill with the lower slider, and that player will break more. 75 vs 65 is still a difference, but both are bad enough to where it's a difference between serviceable (75), and waiver fodder (65) - it becomes a "lesser of two evils" and you'll want to upgrade it. I find that realistic.

Higher sliders = highlighting top talent more. On higher sliders, elite players will be VERY elite because they'll rarely fail at whatever. However, a 90 vs 95 will still create a sizable mismatch because failures are dramatized more and when 95 whatever executes, it's going to be big regardless of slider set. Average players will suffer more vs top players at higher slider settings. Elites will require someone equally elite to stop them. Higher sliders let me get away with a 75 Acc QB because his mistakes aren't that big. To me, this should be reserved for the higher up guys.

It's just how you see the game.

I see the NFL as where any given week, an elite player can falter, most of them aren't perfectly executing every time, but even the mistakes are still "good enough" to beat average players. To me, lower sliders bring that out, especially in the more technique areas. I see the NFL as a place where average players can have a great day even against their "betters" because they had a good breakfast, slept at a Holiday Inn last night, whatever. The vagaries of human performance when tasked with doing a precise set of actions in a quick amount of time 60-70 times.

I think lower sliders capture that more.

By the definition in the post, I guess I go no higher than "mid range" sliders, and that's mostly for tackling - an area where there is not as much performance variability as some think, at least according to data I can find. It's an area where 80% success is BAD. For skills like that, I find midrange is about as low as I can go to be able to "accept" the game playing out that skill "correctly".

I guess, ultimately, my thinking is:

If a skill is defined by small differences - I go with mid range. 50-60 area.

If a skill is very important/defining - I go with very low - 0-20 area. I want the players who make mistakes in defining skills to screw it up more than the ones who tend not to flub things so badly.

If a skill has a low chance of success - I go with low/very low, no higher than about 25. INTs is an example of this. The WORST interception rate against an offense is 4.4% (KC). So the Chiefs throw 96% of their passes without a pick - and that's the WORST rate.

If a skill has a high chance of success - I go mid range to possibly to the edge of high range. Tackling falls under this as does WR catching. These are areas where 20% failure is about as bad as any starter-level NFL player gets. Below that should stand out like a sore thumb. Top end should also stand out, like Willis' 98% success in tackling last year. You should see that, too.

Simplifying it to higher vs lower also removes the impact of interactions. I could probably make 75 QBA work with enough interaction elsewhere - like going with maybe 15 WR Catching. But then I would feel like I'm "fighting one unrealism with another" instead of getting both "semi-realistic" with production coming out plausibly.

There's also the factors of speed threshold, game speed, penalty sliders, user ability, user scheme, personnel interactions, fatigue, injuries, DPP, etc.

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by Jarodd21

That's why you saw alot of people talking about how they were blowing the CPU out on default All-Madden after the 3rd patch was because of EA raising the catching and breaktackles to 50. It ruined the TRUE all-madden gameplay when they raised those two areas. I'm not going to tell you what to believe or not but it's obvious with all the sliders around here using the 75 and under rule that anything above that doesn't provide a challenge for most people.

I won't go there with the challenge part (maybe because I suck, but, depending on the set, it can still be a challenge - I know guys found challenge with my M12 set and guys are getting challenged by dfos' set) but I do agree there are some marked differences.

CPU breaking tackles is one that really stands out to me. CPU players seem to have (too much) awareness of where the holes are in terms of realism (average backs with average vision find holes that average backs in the NFL would not find - an average back succeeds mostly because of his line is good and the playcalling is mixed up - elite backs are the ones that find space almost no matter what and can beat an 8-man front). On the other hand, going over that 75 makes the CPU backs perhaps too passive in trying to find even nearby space.

[Jarodd21]

Quote: Originally Posted by KBLover

I won't go there with the challenge part (maybe because I suck, but, depending on the set, it can still be a challenge - I know guys found challenge with my M12 set and guys are getting challenged by dfos' set) but I do agree there are some marked differences. CPU breaking tackles is one that really stands out to me. CPU players seem to have (too much) awareness of where the holes are in terms of realism (average backs with average vision find holes that average backs in the NFL would not find - an average back succeeds mostly because of his line is good and the playcalling is mixed up - elite backs are the ones that find space almost no matter what and can beat an 8-man front). On the other hand, going over that 75 makes the CPU backs perhaps too passive in trying to find even nearby space.

Yeah I'm sure some guys are still having great games not using the 75 point rule but it's definitely a huge difference in gameplay when you go over the 75 point limit compared to when you play within it and that was the main reason why alot of guys were saying default All-Madden was easy after the patch.. That's pretty much the point I was trying to make.

[D_Fos]

I'm having to grind to win games. Its not that the CPU is too overly powering, just that they are more consistent within certain areas.

I am finding that giving the CPU that 25% boost, same boost that the All-Madden default area does in most areas, really does bring the CPU a.i. alive moreso.

Ex.
I lowered the CPU Rush reaction too low(60) and was able to run all over the CPU. Im slowing increasing it back up until the CPU seems more on apt to stop my run game.
The closer it gets back to the 25% higher level, the better they are at stopping me.

I'm also lowering User Tackle down closer to 50-53 range. When I had it on 55, I would stuff them a lil too often.
Again, closer to that 25% boost for CPU sliders(exactly what the default All-Madden was before patch-3)