Madden 14 Needs a Comprehensive Document On Ratings and Traits

[splff3000]

Quote: Originally Posted by CM Hooe

This is where I argue that part of the fun in playing a game is figuring how how these things work by playing the game. Want to know how a high CIT, high SPC, low CTH plays? Put him in the game and find out! Etc. To be a bit tongue-in-cheek about it, the game exists to be played, not to be a pen-and-paper optimization problem. To this specific example above, my guess is that this player would be somewhat like former UVa wide receiver Billy McMullen, a guy that had a knack for making the toughest catches over the middle and dazzling one-handed catches, but had a nasty habit of dropping routine passes. As to last-gen ratings, I don't think they were nearly detailed enough for all the functions required in a football game and I'm glad they were expanded. I'd argue they weren't detailed enough to represent a physical zone coverage cornerback such as Ronde Barber, for example.

We're not so different in that we both would like less specific rating grades. Where we differ, apparently, is in the amount of ratings shown. I'd like for ratings to be more concise like last gen. Maybe add a rating or 2 to show a defender's ability to shed a block and rush the passer. That's it. IMO, you don't need anymore ratings because everything else can be encompassed within the ratings already given. I'm not gonna get into that much tho. I just feel that if a rating is gonna be shown, even if it's just a letter grade, we should know what it does. Like I said in one of my earlier posts, I had spent all this time thinking STR was applied to linemen one way then we come to find out it is used in a very different way.

[cl34v4g3]

Quote: Originally Posted by CM Hooe

"Proprietary" here means that the exact math Tiburon uses to determine the success of a pass for a given throw power rating is a trade secret the company does not have to reveal for competitive purposes. The inputs into the math problem, Tiburon has chosen to reveal, and has for decades; the math within which those inputs are processed has never been public knowledge. To the purpose of the end user, throw power is how far and how fast Peyton can throw the ball; that's always been understood, and arguably that's all the user needs to know to begin to make strategic decisions in a gameplay situation.

If they want the information kept secret for competitive purposes, there are much better ways of keeping said secret than alienating your consumers.

1. Acquire a monopoly on the product- They've already done this, meaning that there are no competitors. So what are they afraid of?

2. Patent the information- No matter who knows what about your formulas, they can't do anything with it.

[rootofalleli]

Quote: Originally Posted by CM Hooe

"Proprietary" here means that the exact math Tiburon uses to determine the success of a pass for a given throw power rating is a trade secret the company does not have to reveal for competitive purposes. The inputs into the math problem, Tiburon has chosen to reveal, and has for decades; the math within which those inputs are processed has never been public knowledge. To the purpose of the end user, throw power is how far and how fast Peyton can throw the ball; that's always been understood, and arguably that's all the user needs to know to begin to make strategic decisions in a gameplay situation.

If people really need 'exact' math, then yeah, that's going too far. As you said, this should still be a football game, not a spreadsheet game.

The problem though is that there isn't enough football information. I hadn't seen your second post in this thread when I posted earlier, and actually that post is something I've believed for a while as well. I'd love a more organic experience, with more realistic evaluations and less adherence to number-loving tradition. We don't need a bunch of pointless numbers concealing the truth (but I'm sure EA has a customer survey somewhere that says "more ratings = more better" so we're out of luck there).

On the other hand, if we're stuck with numbers, EA needs to do something to make sense of them. We shouldn't have to come up with theories about what numbers do. After all, when NFL teams grade players, they use systems they understand, not mystery numbers that someone at EA arbitrarily set down and refused to explain.

[at23steelers]

For example, if Im building a team and want my defense to have great awareness, should I look more towards their AWR or PRC?

[CM Hooe]

Quote: Originally Posted by at23steelers

For example, if Im building a team and want my defense to have great awareness, should I look more towards their AWR or PRC?

This is a grey area that Tiburon would do well to clean up.

My impressions follow (i.e. don't assume this is truth, this is my best guess): AWR is a general rating that affects how well a player plays when under control by the CPU. PRC governs how quickly a defender reacts to what he sees in front of him and in particular if he overreacts; i.e. a defender with low PRC is more likely to bite on playaction, move too far in the direction of the RB's first step against a counter run, or drop back too far in pass coverage against a draw.

[at23steelers]

Quote: Originally Posted by CM Hooe

This is a grey area that Tiburon would do well to clean up. My impressions follow (i.e. don't assume this is truth, this is my best guess): AWR is a general rating that affects how well a player plays when under control by the CPU. PRC governs how quickly a defender reacts to what he sees in front of him and in particular if he overreacts; i.e. a defender with low PRC is more likely to bite on playaction, move too far in the direction of the RB's first step against a counter run, or drop back too far in pass coverage against a draw.

Ok, thanks! I think that's what we mean by them explaining it though, explain these "gray areas." Giving an explanation like you did, doesn't share their secrets, just helps out the user know what they mean. It sounds like both of them are only for CPU controlled players then right?

[CM Hooe]

Quote: Originally Posted by at23steelers

Ok, thanks! I think that's what we mean by them explaining it though, explain these "gray areas." Giving an explanation like you did, doesn't share their secrets, just helps out the user know what they mean. It sounds like both of them are only for CPU controlled players then right?

That's my working assumption.

I agree that so long as the ratings are visible that EA should go at least into some surface-scratching level of detail about them. Again, however, I'd rather they'd go the opposite direction and force us to scout and self-scout.

Coincidentally, one of the worst things about Madden NFL 13 IMO is the roster management interface. It's a giant spreadsheet. There has to be a better way to convey more information quickly.

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by CM Hooe

Is there precedent for a simulation sports game developer disclosing information about every possible way every particular rating is used in one of their products (beyond the insightful blog by Clint Oldenburg, or the blog by Ian Cummings years ago about the new QB pass accuracy ratings)?

OOTP's manual at least tells you what the ratings and personality traits do.

Football Pro tells you which ratings are "relative" (i.e. mean different things to different positions), and which are "absolute" (one scale applies to all).

Baseball Pro tells you what the ratings do.