Thoughts on new XP system in madden?

[daniel77733]

Quote: Originally Posted by ryanh04

Make progression every 4 weeks and CPU players will go up. You can develop backups just give them playing time. I always substitute late game if I have a decent lead. It takes time to get used to but you can progress them. You get XP even if you DON'T hit the 125 tackles in a season. Example L. Timmons 125 tackes = 10,000, 110 = 5,000, 85 = 500, L. Foote 125 tackles = 20,000, 100 = 5,000, 75 = 500. I like the progress because it's better then what we had. Last year had two WR's 1500 yards and they progressed +2. None of the points went to CIT but 80% of the catches were contested or in tight areas. Madden has to catch the attention of the CASUAL gamer. I wish we could price the foods and merchandise again and we could hire OL, RB, WR, DB, QB Coaches and ect.. It's all about the Casual gamer while us Hardcore gamers suffer.

Follow up question -

If I set player progression to end of season, does that apply to me as well or just the CPU teams?

The last part about pricing food, etc. is something that im assuming you dont want, correct? I hated Owner Mode except for renaming the stadiums and relocation. That stuff was good but thats it. I do wish they would have OC and DC as well as HC that could be fired or have their contracts expired once you enter the off-season. That would be good.

I do agree in regards to your two 1500 yard receivers only progressing 2 points each but at the same time, this is where other factors need to be added in to the equation. For example, if you played on Rookie, then 2 points is more than fair but if you're playing on default All Madden, then its too little.

[ajb3313]

Quote: Originally Posted by ryanh04

I wish we could price the foods and merchandise again and we could hire OL, RB, WR, DB, QB Coaches and ect.. It's all about the Casual gamer while us Hardcore gamers suffer.

I don't want to suggest that you were saying this stuff as though its most important to you, but when CPU teams are releasing their franchise quarterbacks because they spent all their money on back-up defensive linemen, then being able to price cheeseburgers at your stadium is not a priority. There are far, far too many things that have room for improvement and setting ticket prices is nowhere near the top of that hit list.

As for the progression: well, I don't love it, but I think it's better than any previous system. Statistics may not be the best barometer of a player's progression, but they're the closest thing we have without complete and utter randomness.

Certainly in real life players benefit from randomness: a fluke injury to a teammate that buys them playing time, a receiver who gets to play with a Hall of Fame quarterback or a running back drafted to run behind a dominant line. But this randomness is at least a part of a real-life narrative. For Madden to integrate randomness, there's not so much a narrative as there is... well, just arbitrary noise. "Player X is going to progress quickly because he's programmed to." Personally, I'd rather Player X's progression be contingent on how his statistics suggest he performed than some random number hidden somewhere in his ratings. At least that way I'm included in the process.

[bucky60]

Quote: Originally Posted by G3no_11

You have to take into consideration that this is a video game. Stats are really the only way it knows how a player is doing.

Players abilites/ratings should drive performance NOT progression except for player ratings that currently don't exist that really pertain to player progression. A whole set of progression/teaching ratings for players/coaches don't currently exist and should.

Stats should not drive progression. Progression should drive the players progression/regression and the players abilities/ratings should drive performance.

[bucky60]

Quote: Originally Posted by daniel77733

Its not that stats make the progression arcade like, its how its done.

Disagree. Stats based progression is unrealistic and does make it arcade like.

[G3no_11]

Quote: Originally Posted by daniel77733

While I'll say that I like the idea of XP to progress players, its execution isnt good at all. Its too much extra fluff thats not needed. If XP was more like how mini camp was when adding the XP you received, it would have been better. Its not that stats make the progression arcade like, its how its done. If its pre-programmed/pre-determined then I agree but if its done right, it should be based on stats but like I said, other factors like the team you're usually, difficulty level, slider setup, quarter length, wins, losses, etc. should be included in determining that. But thats never going to happen so its either an XP based system or pre-determined/pre-programmed progression. I do prefer XP system over pre-determined/pre-programmed but if the AI was developed to take all that other stuff and factor it in with stats, that would be the best way. After all, like G3no said....its a video game. Roster Updates are based on how players do in reality even if EA screws them up most of the time.

I agree. The game should definitely take into consideration things like team schemes and quarter length. But it's like the game is almost mixing the sim users with arcade users. In some aspects of the game, it's very arcady.. then it throws in this player progression that basically makes you play realistic, full length games (at least games long enough to get realistic stats) in order to complete your goals.

I think that if they would take into consideration what is a logical goal for each player/player type, this progression would be great. Like not asking a scrambling QB in a run-first offense to throw for over 4,000 yards.

In my opinion, I think this progression system is great. So far I have only played the "my player" mode of CCM, but I really like how it is somewhat difficult and how it stresses strategy when improving your player.
In last years game, I played the "my player" mode for like 2 weeks and was bored of it because it was too easy to improve my player.

Now I have played 8 seasons with my player and still hooked on it. I am still trying to save XP to improve my player and I don't have to limit myself to what I can improve. I just enjoy how you can't max out a player's key attributes in 2 or 3 years.

As far as the CCM (coach) goes... I may have a different opinion. But for the "my player" CCM. I have no complaints.

[G3no_11]

Quote: Originally Posted by bucky60

Players abilites/ratings should drive performance NOT progression except for player ratings that currently don't exist that really pertain to player progression. A whole set of progression/teaching ratings for players/coaches don't currently exist and should. Stats should not drive progression. Progression should drive the players progression/regression and the players abilities/ratings should drive performance.

I agree that this is the realistic way of doing it.. but could you give an example of how a video game to take this into account?
Should there just be a "Progression Rating" and that determines how much XP they get each week? No statistical goals at all?

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by G3no_11

I agree that this is the realistic way of doing it.. but could you give an example of how a video game to take this into account? Should there just be a "Progression Rating" and that determines how much XP they get each week? No statistical goals at all?

That sounds like how HC 09 did it with the Learning rating.

Players learned so much towards attributes based on this rating (and of course what they did in the game).

It also impacted things like play learning, so I think a rating like that could help drive progression as well as scheme/coaching changes, performance "out of position", "learning new positions", etc.

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by G3no_11

You have to take into consideration that this is a video game. Stats are really the only way it knows how a player is doing.

Only because that's how it's programmed.

Why can't it understand that McClain didn't make a tackle, but he forced the ball carrier to abandon a hole to run to where his OLB was coming on a blitz? Why doesn't McClain get credit for being a force player?

Same for a CB that forces the ball carrier back inside to where the backside pursuit is coming?

Or a DB that doesn't get to "do anything" because the CPU QB avoids him due to his blanket man coverage all day? A TRUE shutdown corner would be the worst progressing DB in the game. A bad one that gets attacked would rack up the XP because he'd get a few picks by gambling and get to make a lot of tackles.

The game could programmed to take into account things that DON'T generate stats, but DO represent good football intelligence and proper team defense concepts.

My players should not get penalized with a lack of progression simply because they don't light up the box score if they are also doing things that make the ones putting up the numbers succeed.

They have the idea with the OL goals (Passing yards, rushing yards, rushing TDs, OLineman don't generate any of these things), why don't they extend that? Yet another case of just not going far enough with a concept and fully fleshing it out. Why not a goal for committing no holding calls? Why not one for sacks allowed? Why not one for pancakes? Why not one for yards/carry running behind him?