User Catching is considered cheezing in some leagues?

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by WFColonel56

I personally have no ill will or no bad words for ppl that play in a no switch league. If it is more challenging to you or if you want to do it for whatever reason thats cool. More power to you. But the thing I want to get across especially for madden 13 is that it isnt the user catch that is the issue. The MAIN issue is Total Control Passing. I do not fault the devs though because this is a thing that you really dont know how it is really going to work out until people get their hands on it and develop offenses and defenses. Now after a year I hope the devs paid attention and made the necessary adjustments to TCP. Minor culprits (minor in the scheme of user catch issues, major in grand scheme of things) -Zone coverage reaction time -Shading CB in man cov issues - Defender locomotion -Defender awareness in general The issue isnt the actual user catching. I personally think a better work around in M13 is to limit/take away the use of TCP if that is what you want to do. That is the thing that alone will give you most of what you are looking for.

I don't know, while agree that all the things listed are issues, there are more with regard to User catching.

Fatigue- which is hopefully being addressed in M25 but in M13 the way the User can "sprint" when switching to a receiver that already should be hustling.

Injury- there is little to no regard for a players safety when User catching, gamers are risk free. It's a reason why not every receiver in the league goes up for catches like Boldin, Fitzgerald or Megatron, those catches are difficult and dangerous.

Movement- again hopefully fixed in M25 but in M13 a User can make all manner of unrealistic change of direction and actions without penalty, like falling to the ground when jumping for a catch.

Ball physics- the ball needs to be completely separate from the receiver and/or defender, so there is an actual process for securing a catch, not some triggered catch animation.

Player to player interaction- in M13 it's like the defender and receiver are in parallel dimensions where they can see each other but not interact. Players can run into their own teammates and get knockdown but receivers are barely hinder by a defender or two when running routes or attempting a catch. I honestly don't think I have ever seen a receiver stumble in Madden from defender contact without the ball, WTF?

I am sure there are others I am forgetting but the point is the parameters for regulating the use of User catching are lacking or missing in M13.

[WFColonel56]

I most def agree that those things are very important as well. But I will say this about what you said about fatigue. The holding sprint is just to make sure that the receiver is going at the same speed that he was before you clicked onto him. The player doesnt actually get a boost from it

But I do think that if implemented correctly fatigue will change a couple of things when it comes to passing in general not just user catching

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by WFColonel56

I most def agree that those things are very important as well. But I will say this about what you said about fatigue. The holding sprint is just to make sure that the receiver is going at the same speed that he was before you clicked onto him. The player doesnt actually get a boost from it But I do think that if implemented correctly fatigue will change a couple of things when it comes to passing in general not just user catching

I won't quarrel over it too much because hopefully it's been fixed for M25 but the bold is incorrect. I have seen many passes that are overthrown by CPU control player standards, because they don't use sprint, that have been run down by User controlled players, because they can use sprint. It's late and you are probably tired so I will presume you stated the bold due to fatigue, lol.

[WFColonel56]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

I won't quarrel over it too much because hopefully it's been fixed for M25 but the bold is incorrect. I have seen many passes that are overthrown by CPU control player standards, because they don't use sprint, that have been run down by User controlled players, because they can use sprint. It's late and you are probably tired so I will presume you stated the bold due to fatigue, lol.

You can test it out in practice mode, there is no difference between user sprinting after clicking on then the speed the cpu was already running.

What you may be seeing is the user taking better angles to make the catch or using better angles to run you down but it isnt a speed burst thing.

I could make a video of it tomorrow if needed to show there is no difference. But I am really interested as well as confused about how the fatigue and acceleration thing is tied together. Hopefully it all flows together and isnt botched.

[Trick13]

Quote: Originally Posted by WFColonel56

This post isnt to change your opinion.. It is just for breakdown purposes

I see what you are saying, but I don't think you are seeing my point. And how you explained the RC may well be accurate, but there were at least 2 years of Madden on this gen in which hitting down on the R-stick caused a nearly unstoppable animation and while in single coverage in those years the DBs, CPU or User had no way to combat that. It was there. I used to spend hrs in the "lab" trying to defend a friend who was very "talented" at this trick and even when you knew it was coming it was nearly impossible to defend with single man coverage. Which would have been fine if it required a great WR, but it did not. Any bum receiver player would trigger the animation making it completely Busch League BS.

[Trick13]

My point, is that if the system allowed for consistent results based on how you press the buttons, just like passing is controlled now, the game would be much more intuitive and DB vs WR interaction down the field would be much more realistic and balanced.

All in all, I would think that tourney style players would still have a significant advantage us poor slobs who only play for fun...

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by WFColonel56

You can test it out in practice mode, there is no difference between user sprinting after clicking on then the speed the cpu was already running. What you may be seeing is the user taking better angles to make the catch or using better angles to run you down but it isnt a speed burst thing. I could make a video of it tomorrow if needed to show there is no difference. But I am really interested as well as confused about how the fatigue and acceleration thing is tied together. Hopefully it all flows together and isnt botched.

No need for a video you maybe right and it was changed in M13 but here is a sample of what I was referring to from a Youtube video. It's at the 0:08 mark, the User sprints with the receiver to catch the ball.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flYxc3btqUM

Again, that's all moot because I can't believe this ish I just saw on Youtube while checking this out. No wonder nobody bothers to sprint to catch deep lobs anymore, they can just undercut passes and pluck balls out the air again. I traded in M13 back in early October so I honestly had no idea how bad this User catch stuff had gotten.

I don't mean this in a rude way but Sgibs and Zfarls should be ashamed of themselves, lol. I wonder do devs even watch this stuff on Youtube but I know those 2 do because they have their own videos up there. C'mon Sgibs and Zfarls, you two seem like some alright cats, at least lobby the devs to put in some options so gamers can disable some of this stuff for their leagues. An option to disable preplay adjustments and a player lock option for no switch leagues would be nice.

I am actually disgusted at the stuff I just saw on Youtube, it's a travesty what people are being allowed to do in Madden 13, I bet Trip Hawkins and John Madden are rolling over in their graves(Inside the NBA reference).

[sgibs7]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

No need for a video you maybe right and it was changed in M13 but here is a sample of what I was referring to from a Youtube video. It's at the 0:08 mark, the User sprints with the receiver to catch the ball. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flYxc3btqUM Again, that's all moot because I can't believe this ish I just saw on Youtube while checking this out. No wonder nobody bothers to sprint to catch deep lobs anymore, they can just undercut passes and pluck balls out the air again. I traded in M13 back in early October so I honestly had no idea how bad this User catch stuff had gotten. I don't mean this in a rude way but Sgibs and Zfarls should be ashamed of themselves, lol. I wonder do devs even watch this stuff on Youtube but I know those 2 do because they have their own videos up there. C'mon Sgibs and Zfarls, you two seem like some alright cats, at least lobby the devs to put in some options so gamers can disable some of this stuff for their leagues. An option to disable preplay adjustments and a player lock option for no switch leagues would be nice. I am actually disgusted at the stuff I just saw on Youtube, it's a travesty what people are being allowed to do in Madden 13, I bet Trip Hawkins and John Madden are rolling over in their graves(Inside the NBA reference).

I'm very proud of what I do and my community.

Still the same answer. Users should have complete control over their teams in the game.

If someone is going to fall back on a "I try to replicate football so I don't do that" card - thats fine. That can be the scape goat.

Don't regulate how someone else should play.