Madden NFL 25 Gameplay Roundtable (UTC)

[Only1LT]

Quote: Originally Posted by Trick13

In terms of "moves" most of the PS2 era games were bad, but as far as running animations - just running straight - PS2 Madden05-07 are still far and away smoother and more anatomically correct - guys on those games don't look like they are trying to race to the port-a-potty - all hunched over like Quasimodo and such. I don't remember which Madden for sure but a PS2 Madden had a pretty good realistic body lean when turning - only problem was no foot-planting. You can disagree all you want but the running animations for every game we have seen this gen are terrible, especially when you look back at 05-07 Madden on PS2.

I think you are missing what I am saying completely. I am in NO WAY defending the animations on the current gen. I am under NO circumstances saying that the current gen animations are better than last gen. What I am saying, and have always said, is that they are BOTH bad.

Maybe I am a harsher critic. Maybe the animations from this gen have traumatized people so much that they will accept anything remotely better. I don't know. All I know is that last gen animations are in NO WAY realistic. Better than this gen does not equate to realistic. That goes for special moves, turning, running in a straight line, whatever. All bad.

I want actual pseudo realistic animations on this gen as well as the next. I cringe everytime I see posts say "Just give us the same animations as PS2." All I can say is please, by all that is good, no.

[Trick13]

Quote: Originally Posted by Only1LT

... I want actual pseudo realistic animations on this gen as well as the next. I cringe everytime I see posts say "Just give us the same animations as PS2." All I can say is please, by all that is good, no.

I agree fully that PS2 should not be the standard, but I would actually be happier w/ M25 if the straight run animation was the PS2 animation and not what we have suffered w/ this gen.

My point is they went backwards in a big way (fluidity, stride length, body lean) on this gen and maybe they should look at the animations they have in house - and use what they did well on PS2 as a launching point to get better. 360/PS3 run animation is so terrible, that they need to do something about it.

[Only1LT]

Quote: Originally Posted by Trick13

I agree fully that PS2 should not be the standard, but I would actually be happier w/ M25 if the straight run animation was the PS2 animation and not what we have suffered w/ this gen. My point is they went backwards in a big way (fluidity, stride length, body lean) on this gen and maybe they should look at the animations they have in house - and use what they did well on PS2 as a launching point to get better. 360/PS3 run animation is so terrible, that they need to do something about it.

We both agree that the current gen animations are unacceptable. Where we disagree is that I am not willing to settle for last gen animations, even as a base.

I've seen too many other games, outside of sports games even, with MUCH better animations than this gen or last gen, to think that they can't do much better than both.

Let the past go man lol. Those old animations were no watermark. Not by a longshot.

[Trick13]

Quote: Originally Posted by Only1LT

I've seen too many other games, outside of sports games even, with MUCH better animations than this gen or last gen, to think that they can't do much better than both. Let the past go man lol. Those old animations were no watermark. Not by a longshot.

Examples of other games? I am curious because I don't play a lot of games - I am mostly a Madden gamer - occasionally will play GTA, Assassin's Creed, and a few others, but very sparingly. And none of the games I have played or seen really respect physics in terms of human movement, so i would like to know what games you are referencing so I can go check them out. Unless you are talking MLB/NHL/NBA or especially soccer in which case I will just take your word for it because well just because...

[carvis#15]

Well first of all, from my perception, this game will be very very bad. That mixed with I hate EA sports guts says a lot. I don't care if you can't get everything in the game all at once. I'm tellin' ya if this game sucks I'll grab a clothes hanger and hang myself in the closet..LMBO man I'm just playin'. Overall this review makes me excited to see all of this stuff in action. What I really can't wait for is the next gen stuff. I'm really excited to see how much they will utilize the extra space on next gen.

[CoreySA]

Quote: Originally Posted by Danimal

People are entitled to read and listen to anyone's opinions they wish and I don't know Corey at all so this isn't directed at him. I didn't even know about this site existed until last week but considering who the founder is and how he behaved here last year. I'll personally have a hard time considering information posted their unbiased.

First off, no offense taken. Secondly, we created the site two months ago so we are fairly new.

Lastly, realize that there are a few of us that founded and own the site, not just one. One of the hardest things we deal with is having multiple opinions and varied support for each title. That's why a lot of what we do is based on roundtables and multiple opinions because we don't want one guy coming off as biased based on the fact he went to a community day or what have you. That's why we try to stray away from reviews and personal opinions without a second voice.

While I understand your reservations in regards to some writers (personal opinion), all I ask is that you judge and base your feelings on the actual content and overall package. Not one guy. I think the writing itself proves we aren't throwing a bunch of positives out there with no real issues. I, in fact, think the issues are real and are a problem. I'll always try to support community regards, but I'm only one person.

By all means, ignore UTC if you wish but I can assure you we have a multitude of different voices and a vision that puts honesty and community first. But this was founded by a bunch, not one.

[CM Hooe]

Quote: Originally Posted by Only1LT

Not sure why you said "predictably", but maybe there is some background to this that I'm not aware of. In any case, not sure how anyone can look at PS2/XBOX Madden and say that it animated well, let alone animated better than that of it's NFL 2K counterpart, so I guess all I can say is, ok lol. As for the point that past generations can't be judged because they were too primitive? I don't get that. 8bit graphics are terrible in retrospect, but that doesn't mean that there aren't 8bit games that look better than others. Graphics and animations can be, and should be, up for comparisons to games from that same era, regardless of when they were made. I can't see any circumstance where this would not be the case.

To be clear, I said "predictably" because I have a tendency to go against what appears to be popular opinion on these boards. No slight on you.

On 8-bit and 16-bit football video games - my recollection is that the concept of a wrap tackle didn't exist. All tackles were defenders diving at the ball carrier with one eight-angle sprite animation to choose from. To that end making a comparison isn't particularly useful. Either way, bringing up sprite-based games isn't relevant to the quality of the current game, as 2D and 3D are two entirely different animals.

As to Madden on Gen-6 and Gen-7 consoles being animated poorly, you're going to have to give specific examples because I simply don't see poor quality animations, any glaring issues with the inverse kinematics or in blending animations together, or what have you. There is player warping on occasion, and I allow that this has historically been a point of frustration in Madden, but all animation-driven sports games have warping to some extent. I think there are also issues where certain situations do not have proper animations placed into the game - OL/DL battles come to mind - but the animations present in the game and how they trigger and execute by and large all fit a football context as well.

I'm not going to entertain specific comparisons to other games because that is a no-no in the Madden forum.

In any case, I invite you to be more specific to your point that Madden animates poorly. I could be missing something.

[CT Pitbull]

Either way i think we can all agree that EA football, in general, is at a critical tipping point with their customers. Or should i say their hardcore customers. I have a funny feeling that if they cant nail this thing down in the next year or two, someone else may be willing to take a a crack at it. Even if its NOT a licensed product. At this point guys like us are soo "quality football game starved" that we dont care if the game has the real logos and players or not. I for one could care less at this point i just wanna play a great game of football before im 50 years old. Like someone in this thread said if the guys at BB accually had a clue about american football that game might have been the start of something special. Who's to say another gaming group doesnt come together with a similar, more advanced, effort with their finger on the pulse of what guys like us are looking for? Maybe its just wishful thinking. Or maybe EA will get there act together sooner than later.