Madden 25 Gameplay Impressions Game Changers Radio 5/7(More in depth than TSP Radio)

[jpdavis82]

Quote: Originally Posted by Only1LT

Can't see the vid because YouTube is blocked at work, but I don't remember ever saying that the gameplay is better. I said that they did a lot of things better than current gen Madden does. One of which is RBP. Another would be the juke and spin. Another would be ball trajectory. I could go on. I also can't see what you list as the best Madden, but I most likely disagree lol. It isn't that Madden 99 is a better game in every way to Madden 25 or 13, it's that the focus of the game was MUCH more sim focused than the game is today, and they did more with less hardware capabilities, whereas current gen Madden does less with more. Not coincidentally, I think that Madden 99 marked the defection of many Tiburon members to Visual Concepts and the birth of the NFL2K franchise. I wonder how that turned out...

You cannot be serious about the spin move from Madden 99 being better than it is now, LOL. The spin move in Madden 99 is awful, watch the video.

[Only1LT]

Quote: Originally Posted by jpdavis82

You cannot be serious about the spin move from Madden 99 being better than it is now, LOL. The spin move in Madden 99 is awful, watch the video.

Again, can't see the vid now.

Going off memory, but I'm pretty sure it was better. I don't remember ever being able to spin 10yds out of the way of a tackler in 99, so that makes it better by default.

No one uses the spin in real life like it's done in Madden. A spin is used to prevent a defender from getting a hold of you or to spin out of a tackle by using their momentum against them. I don't remember seeing people spin many yards away out of the reach of a defender or using a spin to immediately spin outside of contain on an outside run, which is exactly what is done in Madden now.

So, yes. I am serious.

[m1ke_nyc]

Improvements sound nice but they sound nice every year. Hopefully the AI was worked on to go with it.

[jpdavis82]

Quote: Originally Posted by Only1LT

Again, can't see the vid now. Going off memory, but I'm pretty sure it was better. I don't remember ever being able to spin 10yds out of the way of a tackler in 99, so that makes it better by default. No one uses the spin in real life like it's done in Madden. A spin is used to prevent a defender from getting a hold of you or to spin out of a tackle by using their momentum against them. I don't remember seeing people spin many yards away out of the reach of a defender or using a spin to immediately spin outside of contain on an outside run, which is exactly what is done in Madden now. So, yes. I am serious.

It's a video game, you can hit the spin button whenever you want. Just like you can shoot full court jumpers at any point in a game of NBA2k, that doesn't make the game unrealistic. The true test of whether a game is sim or not, is to play with sim minded gamers. I can make any sports game look fake or arcadey if the controls allow you to. If you kick a 100 yard fg does that mean the game is fake? If you throw a hail mary on 1st down? Go for it every time on 4th down? NO, you can do that in any football game, that is the result of a casual gamer playing the game the way they choose to, not the result of a game catered to the casual.

[hanzsomehanz]

JP, he is emphasizing how exaggerated the spin is - how much ground the move covers was better simulated circa '99 versus today. In LTs perspective the former is achieving a higher sim standard than the latter. I think that is a fair point and nothing of the outlandish sorts.

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[Only1LT]

Quote: Originally Posted by jpdavis82

It's a video game, you can hit the spin button whenever you want. Just like you can shoot full court jumpers at any point in a game of NBA2k, that doesn't make the game unrealistic. The true test of whether a game is sim or not, is to play with sim minded gamers. I can make any sports game look fake or arcadey if the controls allow you to. If you kick a 100 yard fg does that mean the game is fake? If you throw a hail mary on 1st down? Go for it every time on 4th down? NO, you can do that in any football game, that is the result of a casual gamer playing the game the way they choose to, not the result of a game catered to the casual.

I don't think you understand what I am saying.

My issue isn't with what the player does with tools given. My issue is with the tools themselves.

I don't care if a user gets the hand-off on a sweep and immediately does a spin move. He/she can do what they want. The problem is WHY they are doing it. They are doing it because the spin move spins them 6-7yds outside of the contain, faster than they could by running. It covers way too much ground in way too short an amount of time. That is NOT realistic.

Try to do that in 2K and it will not work. The spin doesn't go anywhere. You do it to break a tackle or to slip a tackle. Not to totally morph out of the way of the defender like a Dhalsim teleport lol.

That's my issue. People do unrealistic things in the game because at its most basic level, the game is wholly unrealistic.

[hanzsomehanz]

In both coversations, the depth of what I am hearing from LT is the admonishing for less overtone in performance and more toning in the technicalities where the game is lacking. I liken it to the *risk:rewards of swinging for the fences vs swinging for a single.

In baseball, you can swing for the fences all you want but there is always room for error - the sluggers are not the most efficient hitters.

*Distance covered on the average hit does not determine success.

In football speak, I am hearing LT advocate that there needs to be more focus on allowing errors and 'outs', like a foul ball or pop fly.

*Hitters who get on base are more effective than those who always swing for the fence. Let a home run be a homer but dont exaggerate the effect and the propensity.

Question, it is one thing to attempt a seventy-five yard kick but if you make that kick in the base emviornment, how is that Sim? Sixty, OK, but seventy-five is stretching it.

In the same effect, the spin and lead passing are stretched beyond sim measures and should be justifiably disputed just as a 75% success rate on a seventy-five yard field goal should be disputed.

These outcomes do not belong in the base enviornment - they are modifiers for casual gamers. If one or more areas is achieveing the sim standard, why not all areas of performance?

Here is vid link of LT showcasing his spin move. Its simple but sexy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Itjl...e_gdata_player

In fairness, m25 is slated to tier the abilities so the ability does not have the same effect on every layer of ballcarriers - not everyone is painted with a broad stroke.

It still remains a point to advocate against stretching the success of a move/feature and its propensity to surpass physical thresholds, if the tartet outcome is already met.

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[jpdavis82]

Quote: Originally Posted by Only1LT

I don't think you understand what I am saying. My issue isn't with what the player does with tools given. My issue is with the tools themselves. I don't care if a user gets the hand-off on a sweep and immediately does a spin move. He/she can do what they want. The problem is WHY they are doing it. They are doing it because the spin move spins them 6-7yds outside of the contain, faster than they could by running. It covers way too much ground in way too short an amount of time. That is NOT realistic. Try to do that in 2K and it will not work. The spin doesn't go anywhere. You do it to break a tackle or to slip a tackle. Not to totally morph out of the way of the defender like a Dhalsim teleport lol. That's my issue. People do unrealistic things in the game because at its most basic level, the game is wholly unrealistic.

I don't know about past Madden's but in Madden 13 the spin move covers 1-2 yards, I'm playing it right now and I've played 100+ hrs of Madden 13 and never felt like the spin move was moving guys 6-7 yds from containment.