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Reining In PrePlay Adjustments

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Old 05-20-2013, 02:26 PM   #73
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Re: Reining In PrePlay Adjustments

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyboxer
Pretty much. Making 4,5 6 "adjustments" during each play is something that needs to go. Player ratings and a better play calling system needs to happen. Making the occasional line call etc.. is fine but should have some sort of outcome dictated by the players ratings on the field.

Unfortunately until total sim input is at EA's ears we'll never get that.
Making 4,5,6 adjustments during a play IS SIM!!!!!!

Yet again I post this and nobody has a legit rebuttal to it

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...post2044889140

And that stuff in that post isnt even complicated adjustments IRL. It is basic stuff.

Based on the defense you run you may have to check to a new slant and may even need to shift your DL just based on offensive formation

2 adjustments

You also may need to tell your deep coverage to shade to a side

1 adjustment

A linebacker or multiple LBs coverage in lets say a cover 3 may change based on formation

1 adjustment (could be more)

A LB that was in coverage may have an auto blitz based on offensive formation

1 adjustment

And that is just a one play scenario. This isnt middle school and this isnt 1970. Nobody just calls a play and goes out and runs it anymore. There are tons of checks that even high school players are required to know.

And even tiered defensive playcalling isnt a stand alone answer because in APF if you call a DL slant you are stuck with it no matter what the offense is in or what motions they do.

THAT ISNT SIM... That isnt football in 2013. That wasnt even football when DL stunts were first created.
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Old 05-20-2013, 02:28 PM   #74
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Re: Reining In PrePlay Adjustments

Quote:
Originally Posted by BezO
My experience with EA is that band-aid = fix. The hot route system is as robust as it is to address the limitations of the playbooks & play calling system. Folks spend 5 years asking for that type of control & that's what we get.

If everyone had been asking for tiered play calling, maybe this thread wouldn't exist.

IMO, every second spent on band-aids is 2 seconds not spent on the real issues. I'm no programmer, but I'm betting that what you're asking for isn't simple & quick. It will take development time, development time that is subtracted from elements that could actually be built upon.
We will just have to agree to disagree because I actually see that the opposite way. It's the people harping on leave it as is until it's fixed that keeps simple options from being added in the meantime. Case in point an option to hide player ratings, which the devs came right out to say they could do "tomorrow" with no problem BUT they won't because it is somehow believed to need a whole list of compliment features so everyone can use it. Huh?

This example is my evidence that even options are perceived to need to be accessible to everyone which is bizarre to me because the very nature of an option is being selective, not for everyone.
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Old 05-20-2013, 02:34 PM   #75
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Re: Reining In PrePlay Adjustments

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Originally Posted by WFColonel56
Making 4,5,6 adjustments during a play IS SIM!!!!!!

Yet again I post this and nobody has a legit rebuttal to it

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...post2044889140
I guess by "legit" you mean a rebuttal that has changed your opinion about it but people have offered rebuttals to this. So even though you have your opinion on this, which is of course your right, it's disingenuous to act as if those that disagree are at a loss for words when you state it.
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Old 05-20-2013, 03:00 PM   #76
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Re: Reining In PrePlay Adjustments

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Originally Posted by Big FN Deal
I guess by "legit" you mean a rebuttal that has changed your opinion about it but people have offered rebuttals to this. So even though you have your opinion on this, which is of course your right, it's disingenuous to act as if those that disagree are at a loss for words when you state it.
Show me where anybody has a rebuttal about 4,5 adjustments being unrealistic and the rebuttal actually making football sense in 2013.
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Old 05-20-2013, 03:04 PM   #77
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Re: Reining In PrePlay Adjustments

Quote:
Originally Posted by WFColonel56
Making 4,5,6 adjustments during a play IS SIM!!!!!!

Yet again I post this and nobody has a legit rebuttal to it

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...post2044889140
That's football - what is there to rebut?

My question is - does Madden reach that level? I don't have an issue with anything that's in the real game of football. Is Madden capable of handling that kind of play? I agree that there's no "limits" in the real game on adjustments made to a play. I don't like having to god mode it in real time pre-snap telling every player what to do (I see it more: coach teaches it, players learn it, then they have to recognize it on the field and do what they've been taught, PRC/AWR, etc)

What I also don't like is the adjustment system. If I'm going to "god mode" things, why can't I switch to the MLB and call out an adjustment instead of going through combinations of button presses? Or call out to the LCB(offensive right) to walk up to the line instead of playing off because I read a possible outside run to his direction and I want him on the line instead of 5-7 yds off like in normal coverage? However, I don't want to have both walk up because, say, DJax is on the offensive left, and his speed has to be respected?

That's where I take issue with Madden. If before the game, especially in franchise/CCM mode (I understand a play now/tournament environments are going to be different animals) - create adjustments during practice mode and run them so that the players can execute them on gameday?

Even try something like what Final Fantasy 12 did with "programming" the AI for the character where you can change how they act when not in your control. Why not something like that set up in practice? That way, I can set up adjustments based on situations, have him learn it in practice, then on gameday - he has to to do it based upon his skills.
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Old 05-20-2013, 03:10 PM   #78
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Re: Reining In PrePlay Adjustments

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Originally Posted by WFColonel56
Show me where anybody has a rebuttal about 4,5 adjustments being unrealistic and the rebuttal actually making football sense in 2013.
Are we having a serious discussion or are you just out to justify the way you choose to play the game? If we are having a serious discussion, you know and I have stated before in that other thread, Madden does NOT represent those adjustments realistically.

You and a few others try to loosely invoke realism when it suits your point, then quickly retreat to "it's just a video game" if anyone calls you on it.
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Old 05-20-2013, 03:11 PM   #79
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Re: Reining In PrePlay Adjustments

Quote:
Originally Posted by BezO
I'm not too familiar with why folks hot route some things, but I'm guessing reblitzing DEs makes for a better pass rush. Would you not prefer DEs simply rush better without having to do that?

Including the reblitzing DEs, would you not prefer to have access to these schemes in the huddle like real football? Or do you prefer the initial limitations of Madden's style of calling pre-package defensive schemes & then altering them at the LOS?

It tends to make the player rush outside/straight path. Some plays have the LB/DE rushing inside, even if you call the edge rush adjustment (some linemen still rush inside when I want them to both push outside). If I "re-blitz" him, he'll rush straight ahead and a spreading of the DEs will have him attack outside shoulder on the OT.
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Old 05-20-2013, 03:12 PM   #80
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Re: Reining In PrePlay Adjustments

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Originally Posted by KBLover
That's football - what is there to rebut?

My question is - does Madden reach that level? I don't have an issue with anything that's in the real game of football. Is Madden capable of handling that kind of play? I agree that there's no "limits" in the real game on adjustments made to a play. I don't like having to god mode it in real time pre-snap telling every player what to do (I see it more: coach teaches it, players learn it, then they have to recognize it on the field and do what they've been taught, PRC/AWR, etc)

What I also don't like is the adjustment system. If I'm going to "god mode" things, why can't I switch to the MLB and call out an adjustment instead of going through combinations of button presses? Or call out to the LCB(offensive right) to walk up to the line instead of playing off because I read a possible outside run to his direction and I want him on the line instead of 5-7 yds off like in normal coverage? However, I don't want to have both walk up because, say, DJax is on the offensive left, and his speed has to be respected?

That's where I take issue with Madden. If before the game, especially in franchise/CCM mode (I understand a play now/tournament environments are going to be different animals) - create adjustments during practice mode and run them so that the players can execute them on gameday?

Even try something like what Final Fantasy 12 did with "programming" the AI for the character where you can change how they act when not in your control. Why not something like that set up in practice? That way, I can set up adjustments based on situations, have him learn it in practice, then on gameday - he has to to do it based upon his skills.
I am all for setting up adjustments based on situations.

Sidenote: If you liked FF12 go pick up a game called Infinite Undiscovery..Dope game and only $9 used @ gamestop. I got it 5 days ago and its great.

But there are also limitations with the adjustments based on situations. There are way too many variables from game to game. I think it would work wonderfully along side of how things are now but by itself I think its way too limited
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