No Huddle revamp for Madden NFL 25?

[RGiles36]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

I keep bringing it up because after I thought it was just a simple misunderstanding, you still persist to conduct yourself in the same manner. The issue last year was you not looking at it from the POV those pointing it out were, instead choosing to look at it from your own POV. Now you seem to be doing the same thing with regard to adaptive AI, maybe you want to go read what you actually posted ITT. Why someone that claims to understand and has advocated for adaptive AI would state this, I have no idea. You stated that, now act as if you have no idea why I have an issue and think you are being closed minded again.

Yes, and in that SAME post, I stated:

Quote:

Individual AI is a different conversation, as maybe some adaptation could benefit in the H2H experience. But I think we have a ways to go before we get to that level of AI.

And in the following post:

Quote:

To your points, there should be some adaptive mechanisms at the individual player level. I agree with that, as I acknowledged in my earlier post.

So again, please point out how I'm being close-minded when I'm clearly giving credence to what you've been saying?

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by RGiles36

Yes, and in that SAME post, I stated: And in the following post: So again, please point out how I'm being close-minded when I'm clearly giving credence to what you've been saying?

If you already claim to understand what adaptive AI is that many of us refer to wanting, then why would you state "I don't believe Adaptive AI has a place in the online experience....The CPU isn't supposed to do the work for you"?

Adaptive AI has been around a while, it's not some new thing anyone just made up so it's odd to see anyone act as if it means something else to others, that they then claim to be against. Adaptive AI has absolutely nothing to do with overriding User control or what the User has assigned a in-game player to do. That's just some mess someone decided to attach to it for some odd reason. At no time have I read an advocate for adaptive AI ask that they not have to call plays or the game just play for them.

People have asked for the ability to have the game play for them but that's either watching CPU v CPU or a true coach mode where the User just calls plays. That's why this notion is so bizarre having EAGC make adaptive AI some catch all moniker for the game playing itself, then proceeding to be against it.

It's disappointing when the go-betweens for gamers and the Madden devs that are advocating for a better NFL football simulation video game, seem to be confused about the meaning of a concept like adaptive AI.

[RGiles36]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

If you already claim to understand what adaptive AI is that many of us refer to wanting, then why would you state "I don't believe Adaptive AI has a place in the online experience....The CPU isn't supposed to do the work for you"? Adaptive AI has been around a while, it's not some new thing anyone just made up so it's odd to see anyone act as if it means something else to others, that they then claim to be against. Adaptive AI has absolutely nothing to do with overriding User control or what the User has assigned a in-game player to do. That's just some mess someone decided to attach to it for some odd reason. At no time have I read an advocate for adaptive AI ask that they not have to call plays or the game just play for them. People have asked for the ability to have the game play for them but that's either watching CPU v CPU or a true coach mode where the User just calls plays. That's why this notion is so bizarre having EAGC make adaptive AI some catch all moniker for the game playing itself, then proceeding to be against it. It's disappointing when the go-betweens for gamers and the Madden devs that are advocating for a better NFL football simulation video game, seem to be confused about the meaning of a concept like adaptive AI.

LOL, I can't deal.

Each time I respond to you addressing your point, you manufacture a new 'original' point that I then have to respond to.

Before it was that there wasn't a significant difference between the role of AI in an online & offline environment. I pointed out the differences. Then it was I don't acknowledge other POVs. I pull posts that lended credibility to your own posts. Now the issue is that I don't know what an Adaptive AI is.

Have at it my man. Enjoy the rest of your holiday weekend ...

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by RGiles36

LOL, I can't deal. Each time I respond to you addressing your point, you manufacture a new 'original' point that I then have to respond to. Before it was that there wasn't a significant difference between the role of AI in an online & offline environment. I pointed out the differences. Then it was I don't acknowledge other POVs. I pull posts that lended credibility to your own posts. Now the issue is that I don't know what an Adaptive AI is. Have at it my man. Enjoy the rest of your holiday weekend ...

That was a nice dodge but you still didn't answer the question, which is your right not to.

You said you know what adaptive AI is and have advocated for it, so why would you act as if others are making it out to be something else, that you believe should not be in online play?

Also, hope you have a great holiday weekend too.

[Smoke6]

Quote: Originally Posted by ZAN

Smoke, I would love for nothing more than the game to play exactly as we see it on Sundays, with the 3-4 YPCarry average, the 7-9YPA throwing, etc...that's my goal. If defense was utterly frustratingly swarming like you see on Sunday, I'd love it. No more of Joe Schmoe with an ebook of route combos that make no sense moving the rock on me at will.

I am glad you have said this^...

It is so frustating for people to rely on things like this to begin with and its about time someone did away with them so we can clearly see who is who when we play online or whatnot. With these lying around, there is not identity to whoever you are playing as its like they're playing from the exact same script of plays and gimmicks.

Same time different year that we have people who intentionally look for past bugs and glitches in the latest game (some with pure intentions) to only report back their detailed findings and to keep some for themselves until others have figured it out only to claim they knew about that since the game dropped.

its childish and most importantly its a bunch of grown men as always.

But great discussion and thanks for answering bro!

[Trick13]

Quote: Originally Posted by Smoke6

I am glad you have said this^... It is so frustating for people to rely on things like this to begin with and its about time someone did away with them so we can clearly see who is who when we play online or whatnot. With these lying around, there is not identity to whoever you are playing as its like they're playing from the exact same script of plays and gimmicks. Same time different year that we have people who intentionally look for past bugs and glitches in the latest game (some with pure intentions) to only report back their detailed findings and to keep some for themselves until others have figured it out only to claim they knew about that since the game dropped. its childish and most importantly its a bunch of grown men as always. But great discussion and thanks for answering bro!

Adaptive AI - if EA built the game with it well fleshed out, and then removed the BS where precision passing changes routes and removed the stupid routes that are impossible to press for no logical reason, then people would not have to worry about cheesers because players, especially highly rated players would "react" to repeated concepts/plays with no user input required and then the real strategy of football would come to the forefront.

[ZAN]

By no means am I against "Adaptive AI" (as it's a term that is popular to throw around in this corner of the Madden community); but I have yet to see someone present it in a way other than as some utopian façade that is hidden behind to "fix" issues with the game.

Would I love for my players to pick up on things in the game? Yes.

But I have yet to see someone present the system in terms of checks and balances. How is Adaptive AI checked/balanced? Because the way it's being described, it will be nothing more than a simple mathematical equation that allows us to figure out how long players from X Awareness to Y Awareness will take to read and react to something, or how long it will take players with Y Awareness to Z Awareness to react.

I can't see how anyone expects EA to implement it if they aren't able themselves to concretely define what it is, how it's checked, and how it's balanced. And I've honestly never seen a well thought out description of what it is. Honestly (and I wish it wasn't so) it's being wrongfully used as a trump card in Madden debate to make people look like they know game programming, football, etc...

It sounds nice...but it's entirely unexplained and a figment of our utopian imagination at this point; and in my opinion is nothing more than a weak arguing point for our current Madden simulation vs. realistic NFL Football conversation if you are unable or unwilling to explain it in great detail. It's essentially banter without any context.

[ZAN]

And by no means am I trying to bash anyone. But I think this example fits here.

Trick talks about it from a standpoint of getting rid of unbumpable routes in Madden?
- Nice...how though?

Another poster mentions it in a context of seeing a route from a formation two or three times and how it should stop it.
- I understand...but what about defined rules within the scheme you're playing? Do you want a MIR corner trying to jump an inside breaking route?

I just would like to see it talked about in more detail...