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To those who say "it's just Madden 2005 part 2"

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Old 05-23-2013, 10:26 AM   #17
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Re: To those who say "it's just Madden 2005 part 2"

Quote:
Originally Posted by BradyFan12
Realistic doesn't always make for a better game, but I respect your opinion. I'm just saying I enjoyed it a hell of a lot more than I did Madden NFL 13. I refused to buy it, but did play it at a friend's house. Just disappointing.
That's precisely my point. You may have enjoyed it more, and that's fine, but I contend the aspect of better controls. Part of why you enjoyed Madden 05 more can be other factors aside from the actual game.

I played Madden 13 through Season Ticket and ended up not purchasing it either. My reasons weren't controls, though. I actually liked how Madden 13 controlled, player movement, etc. I had no issues with that. My issues were with the same old tired issues that exist in Madden 05, specifically with the offensive/defensive line play. By and large, it's still the same as it was in Madden 05: pattycake blocking and coin-flips.
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Old 05-23-2013, 10:37 AM   #18
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Re: To those who say "it's just Madden 2005 part 2"

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Originally Posted by Broncos86
That's precisely my point. You may have enjoyed it more, and that's fine, but I contend the aspect of better controls. Part of why you enjoyed Madden 05 more can be other factors aside from the actual game.

I played Madden 13 through Season Ticket and ended up not purchasing it either. My reasons weren't controls, though. I actually liked how Madden 13 controlled, player movement, etc. I had no issues with that. My issues were with the same old tired issues that exist in Madden 05, specifically with the offensive/defensive line play. By and large, it's still the same as it was in Madden 05: pattycake blocking and coin-flips.
Hey man, I hear ya. All valid points. I just mean they had a lot of overall features I enjoyed. It's been confirmed by Josh Looman that CPU vs. CPU for offline franchise mode is not in the game. That was the killing blow for me last year. A lot of us enjoy that feature, and it's the crux for me. How such a feature couldn't be restored in the final act of the current console era is beyond me.
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Old 05-23-2013, 10:41 AM   #19
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Re: To those who say "it's just Madden 2005 part 2"

If Madden 25 = Madden 05, I would consider that a good thing. A GREAT thing really as '06 is where this thing went off the tracks.
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Old 05-23-2013, 10:42 AM   #20
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Re: To those who say "it's just Madden 2005 part 2"

For sure. There are too many features or aspects that never made a return, or came back in a butchered state. In-game saves is a killer for me, as a parent of toddlers.

Part of the issue could very well be the perception of reality. As the game gets closer and closer to mimicking real life, our brains are going to expect and demand a better representation. If you give us Tecmo Bowl, our brains automatically say "it's not real" and we accept what we see. Our brain will fill in the blanks and we're fine with it. Then there comes a threshold that we step over, where suddenly our brains are not content and we cannot fill in the blanks. It's similar to the Uncanny Valley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_valley).

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Old 05-23-2013, 10:54 AM   #21
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Re: To those who say "it's just Madden 2005 part 2"

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Originally Posted by Broncos86
For sure. There are too many features or aspects that never made a return, or came back in a butchered state. In-game saves is a killer for me, as a parent of toddlers.

Part of the issue could very well be the perception of reality. As the game gets closer and closer to mimicking real life, our brains are going to expect and demand a better representation. If you give us Tecmo Bowl, our brains automatically say "it's not real" and we accept what we see. Our brain will fill in the blanks and we're fine with it. Then there comes a threshold that we step over, where suddenly our brains are not content and we cannot fill in the blanks. It's similar to the Uncanny Valley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_valley).
That's actually an interesting study. I think you're right. However, if people really wanted reality...they'd just watch the NFL...not play a game of it. Sure, we want some of the aspects to be reality based. Players, stats, etc. But we also want to be the Gods or Watchmakers of our NFL franchise Universe. I mean, if we wanted reality, we wouldn't want legends in the game. Am I right?
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Old 05-23-2013, 10:58 AM   #22
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Re: To those who say "it's just Madden 2005 part 2"

That being said, there sure is a lot of "sim" talk on this forum.

Madden still sells because, for most people, Madden does give them that "I'm in the NFL!" feeling. To them, Madden is a fine replication of the NFL. "The line blocks, running back runs, receiver catches. Yup, the NFL!" They're not scrutinizing replays and looking at nuances. That's what a lot of people want, and Madden delivers that to them. This forum is unique in how deep it really goes.

A lot of people don't want realism, not really. They think they do, they think they want the real deal. They don't realize what that means. What they really want is a feeling that it's real. They actually need 5 - 7 seconds in the pocket, they need WRs who are college-level wide open. This is what they need. So there's a balance in that regard. There's also the limitations of what you can do with a controller in your hand. QBs in the NFL have communication from linemen and peripheral vision. You don't have that, when in the pocket. You have a controller that vibrates, it's not the same. So that changes what a game can do.

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Old 05-23-2013, 11:35 AM   #23
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Re: To those who say "it's just Madden 2005 part 2"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Broncos86
That being said, there sure is a lot of "sim" talk on this forum.

Madden still sells because, for most people, Madden does give them that "I'm in the NFL!" feeling. To them, Madden is a fine replication of the NFL. "The line blocks, running back runs, receiver catches. Yup, the NFL!" They're not scrutinizing replays and looking at nuances. That's what a lot of people want, and Madden delivers that to them. This forum is unique in how deep it really goes.

A lot of people don't want realism, not really. They think they do, they think they want the real deal. They don't realize what that means. What they really want is a feeling that it's real. They actually need 5 - 7 seconds in the pocket, they need WRs who are college-level wide open. This is what they need. So there's a balance in that regard. There's also the limitations of what you can do with a controller in your hand. QBs in the NFL have communication from linemen and peripheral vision. You don't have that, when in the pocket. You have a controller that vibrates, it's not the same. So that changes what a game can do.
That is what rookie and pro game settings should be for - the people who want 5-7 seconds in the pocket with wide open receivers.

Peripheral vision, instincts, situational awareness is why I don't want first person cameras, not that they shouldn't be options, but "God camera view" equates to having some of those loosely represented in terms of the overall experience.

The game should be built or tuned for realism on All-Madden and the "dummy down" - not the opposite who h is what happens now. We have to spend hours and hours testing slider sets to get a pass rush, have the CPU be effective running, zone just flat don't work, and there is no way to compensate for the scrappy AI in terms of CPU play calling (custom game plans anyone? That u can assign to CPU teams with CFM both on and offline).

I am tired of the excuses - the casuals the casuals the casuals, accessibility for the newbie - blank that! Build the game for the hardcore SIM heads and arcade it down via lower difficulty settings.

All-Madden out of the box used to be challenging against the CPU. Cheating not withstanding but that needs to make a return....
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Old 05-23-2013, 11:46 AM   #24
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Re: To those who say "it's just Madden 2005 part 2"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armor & Sword
Madden by all accounts got off to a horrid start this gen.

I never played Madden 06,07,08 or 09 this Gen. I stuck with Madden 2005 and then 2007 (last gen) till I picked up M10 this Gen.

So I never got to experience the so-called dreck everyone has harped about.

M10 was a solid title and I still feel plays a good game of football despite the obvious flaws and minor annoying bugs. What I was horrified about was the stripped down, lifeless franchise mode. I was really shell shocked what I went to from the great Madden 2007 (last gen).

Enter M12. Hands down the best Madden I have played on the field.

M13 was a giant beta.

M25 I hope and pray brings it all together from M10, M12 and the IE/CCM Beta that was M13.

I see a ton of promise that M25 can be the most complete package we have ever seen on a Madden game in terms of the most realistic on field gameplay, off the field features with everything we are used too plus a more immersive owner mode and the building of what was great about CCM (story lines, scouting and drafting).

What is critical is the on-field/off-field AI and all the features and functions must work. Not the bug laden drink coaster I played last year.

I am one who really has not been able to go back and play Madden 05/07....not after playing M10 and M12 big time. Those two titles are better games on the field IMO. The player movements, models and feel is more realistic.

I have fond memories of those past iterations of Madden...but they are dated. Now the other game....still plays an awesome game of football. But that too has lost it's shine at this point.

I can't go back to MVP 2005.....no way. Tried with my son some 5 months ago..not with The Show.

NHL 94? No way...come on.

Has Madden made a good enough game for me to forget M05? Yeah they did it on 12. Madden 12 is a very good game.

M25 has a chance at greatness. Bring back Madden 12's camera angles, replays and AI...couple that with all the bells and whistles of Connected Franchise with a working IE 2.0, improved OL/DL interaction, and everything working again that did not work on M13....and greatness for Madden can return.

Oh and BTW please bring back all the great NFL films music.....PLEASE!!!!!

I love playing Madden. Always have.

This is me to a T, as well. To add, I want to fully admit further past games and how I'd play. I remember in John Elway's QB, with no names or numbers at all, and I'm just imagining who is on what teams. That is what kept me playing that game. With Tecmo Super Bowl 1,2,3, it got better because the names and numbers and accurate color schemes were actually there. No lie...I did not fall in with Madden in a traditional sense until M2000...I wasn't solely hooked on the series until that effort exactly. I fully, 100% admit that when Madden began allowing create-a-player and create-a-team into the game (and ratings editing), that pretty much sealed the deal. Why? Any player I felt needed in the game and what their level of competition needed to be brought...I created it...to my standards. Problem solved. You guys are right. The best sports games in all other sports allow the same exact thing. Madden for some reason wants to go year after year of "it's in....it's out...it's sort of back....it's all you ever wanted....it's completely gone again..." It's annoying.

Like all of you, though, M25 shows a ton of promise because they honestly didn't take away anything from the year before and so quickly added so much back in. They need to keep on the same track of only adding things into the game from here on out. For now, my give-a-crap-meter is at 90% and slowly climbing. They have me back, basically. Of course, the gameplay itself is still what I need to see most. E3 can't come fast enough, nor can Shopmaster playing a final build to review - those will seal the deal.
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