To those who say "it's just Madden 2005 part 2"

[FlyEaglesFly3]

We're not comparing smart phones to bag phones.
We're not comparing Flat screens to Tube TVs.
We're not comparing the graphics from last Gen to this Gen.

Those are all obvious arguments. The newer trumps 10/10 times. That's why we've moved in the direction we are. When technology advances, we expect big things, we expect a better and new status quo.

For Madden the fact that we have to compare a game from last fall to one that was here almost a decade ago, is unacceptable. When things get newer, they should get better; and be obviously better after a decade. Instead, Madden has regressed or flattened out since its prime in M04 and M05(in terms of fun, being immersive, and being appealing to the hardcore fan).

People aren't just being picky, they had something they loved, and it was taken from them when they went to next gen. Madden should've went as far as they could to replicate the last old gen games into the next gen. With graphics upgrades and maybe a few new features. By now, madden 13 would probably be one of the best sports games on the market. Actually in the conversation with NBA2k and FIFA. They had excuses on why they couldn't add features or why things were stripped down, but they can now? With the same XBOX360 disc, system, they could finally do it?

Quick Summary:
We shouldn't have to compare something from 2013 to 2004. We shouldn't HAVE to have an uproar about how much better the older games were.

[AaronS444]

Quote: Originally Posted by Broncos86

So my question is: why make three versions? What technical reasons would there be to release three versions? Especially when they could fit all "three" on one disc and sell it? What makes the "sim" and "arcade" versions so different that they require different releases?

Look at the size and wants of the community. To a large degree, many want different things, and we will never all be satisfied, most likely.

I think an arcade version satisfies the casual user. A hardcore sim for those wanting that. And a classic version, as classic players just doesn't cut it.

EA can't get all 3 in 1. They can't do it. This console cycle proved it.

.. but again, waste of words. This will never happen. It's another of many empty ideals.

[Trick13]

Casuals who buy the game every year, will always buy the game every year. They buy it each year and would regardless of how sim or arcade slanted it is - they are not the group, majority that everyone keeps telling me that they are (Despite my personal experiences telling me just the opposite), that varies their purchases based on quality or style - they buy because it is new and their "boys" are buying it.

They buy it and will always buy it because they are lemmings. They are not following twitter accounts of Devs, they are not on sites like OS dissecting screenshots and trailers, yet I bet most of the people who "like" Madden on facebook are casuals.

And you know who else is not spending time here at OS, or any other site for that matter - about 90 percent of the Madden community that I know in my area - all of who are hardcore "sim" style players. Most of the ones I know have not purchased more than 1 Madden title this generation. I know 3 guys who refuse to buy Madden until the controls are such that you have to release "turbo/sprint/acceleration boost" to perform "footwork" moves.

EA, and even people here at OS keep telling me "casuals are the majority" but it flies in stark opposition to what my experience with other gamers is telling me. As years go by the area I live in has less and less active Madden players - and when you ask guys why they no longer play you always get "not realistic" or "too gimmicky".

Sales of Madden will always be strong because there is always a new emerging teen market there to fill in the drop outs of older players who can no longer stomach the glitcheration.

I would be willing to bet almost anything - that if EA put out a game that interactions and moves were well done, based on physics, ratings mattered, mismatches like 90 rated DEs against 70 rated OL meant trouble for the offense, and the game respected real football strategy and the game was geared from the ground up at "sim heads" - it would destroy any previous sales marks on a single year for it and any competitive football game combined...

I know 10 guys off the top of my head who quit Madden because it has been marketed at lemmings.

[AaronS444]

Agreed Trick13,

Sad that sales can never truly be hurt.

For any loyal fan that has jumped off, 2 or 3 more jump on in their place.

.. deep down though, I don't care. Past versions can be modded, so I get what I want, with few exceptions.

[Broncos86]

Quote: Originally Posted by AaronS444

Look at the size and wants of the community. To a large degree, many want different things, and we will never all be satisfied, most likely. I think an arcade version satisfies the casual user. A hardcore sim for those wanting that. And a classic version, as classic players just doesn't cut it. EA can't get all 3 in 1. They can't do it. This console cycle proved it. .. but again, waste of words. This will never happen. It's another of many empty ideals.

But tell me why that requires an entire DVD for each? How is Sim and Arcade so different beyond mere settings?

[AaronS444]

Quote: Originally Posted by Broncos86

But tell me why that requires an entire DVD for each? How is Sim and Arcade so different beyond mere settings?

Do you agree that an NFL Blitz-like game would appease many casual gamers? Madden-lite, if you will?!

The hardcore game would be geared toward the many that are never satisfied. The diehards who know the ins and outs of the game forward and backward. Those who have been playing the game loyally for 20+ years.

I don't believe there is a happy medium between these two groups any longer. I think the needs of the two are best served separately.

/pipedream

[Broncos86]

Quote: Originally Posted by AaronS444

Do you agree that an NFL Blitz-like game would appease many casual gamers? Madden-lite, if you will?! The hardcore game would be geared toward the many that are never satisfied. The diehards who know the ins and outs of the game forward and backward. Those who have been playing the game loyally for 20+ years. I don't believe there is a happy medium between these two groups any longer. I think the needs of the two are best served separately. /pipedream

No, not at all. Otherwise, NFL Blitz would've sold better. Most people buy Madden because of what it is. They want a perception of sim, even if it isn't. You're looney if you think most people who currently buy Madden would prefer NFL Blitz.

You need to understand that the "many" who are unsatisfied represent a minority in terms of sales. Many buy Madden and like it because it gives them a sense of the NFL, even if it isn't really accurate.

[Big FN Deal]

The OP is a perfect example of the "Madden community" mindset that I can't fathom. Whatever EA Tibiron does is judged and measured strictly in comparison to Madden this gen, nothing else. I respect the opinions of others and am trying my best not to come off the wrong way but in lieu of the reality of Madden and sports gaming as a whole, the last 9 years, I just don't get some of the things stated in the OP.

First off, how you can compare just the graphics of Madden 2005 versus Madden today, while seemingly ignoring the fact M05 had position battles, player morale, team chemistry, practice squads, injury equipment, training camp, mass subs, in-game saves, pregame formation subs, create a fan, defensive assignments, team chemistry and that other NFL game in 2004 had ESPN broadcasting, halftime/weekly highlight show, tiered play calling, off field mishaps, weekly practice duties schedule, injury rehab, sig animations, VIP play calling, custom stadium sounds, offensive/defensive player matchups that effecting their ratings for each game, route based passing, maximum control passing/the ball completely untethered from the receiver, independent ball physics, skill tiered animations, working NFL penalties, the list goes on and on, is beyond me. The only NFL football game in 2013 still hasn't added or improved on NFL elements games had in 2004, on less powerful consoles, that are still relevant in the NFL today, I don't see how that no big deal.

Secondly, Tiburon does NOT fix "little things" every year or even every 4 years, they have shown they couldn't care less about little things this entire console gen. Just put "Madden little things" in an OS thread search and read through how much of that stuff has been paid any attention to in 9 years. You state you couldn't care less about little things if the game plays well on the field, well I guess you care a lot about little things in Madden then because it doesn't play football well on the field. Foot planting and realistic change of direction is being touted as a feature in the 9th edition of a simulation NFL football game, so I don't see how anyone can claim Madden played well on the field in the prior 8 editions when player movement was broken but to each their own.

Lastly, "the defensive line could play better" is a gross understatement, it would be less a stretch to say "the defensive line couldn't play worse", which also goes back to the game allegedly playing well on the field. In regard to Looman, though I laud his work on past Franchise modes and HC09, the fact that a key architect to so many great modes in the past would simply "move on" to something else before restoring what he has already done well, is bizarre in relation to common sense but par the course for next gen Madden.

Anyway, we are all entitled to our own opinion of course but just because you find Madden acceptable at this point, doesn't mean there isn't plenty of obvious reasons why others justly don't.