To those who say "it's just Madden 2005 part 2"

[Trackball]

Seriously, have you PLAYED Madden 2005 lately?

Go on, boot it up if you have it. And if you don't, it's super-cheap on eBay or Amazon.

We get it--it had a ton of awesome features that sound like they were a ton of fun. This was necessary, due to ESPN NFL 2K5 coming out that year. I will grant, competition usually drives quality.

But ask yourself: Has Madden 2005's on-field gameplay really aged THAT well? Would you REALLY rather play that than Madden 12 or 13?

I'm seeing people raising a big fuss over such minor things, like whether players are planting their feet before a move, or whatever. Seriously? THAT'S your big problem?

No, the game's not perfect. The number of perfect video games since 1972 can probably be counted on one hand--and the more bytes of code there are, the more bugs will slip through on launch day, especially when you're forced to work with a development cycle of just one year, like EA Tiburon.

Remember that "Greg Jennings with a broken leg" video from Madden 10? Look again at how Aaron Rodgers scrambles. His legs move, but his torso stays in place, like a puppet. (WARNING FOR LANGUAGE.)



This was just four years ago.

It's the little things like this that get fixed every year, one by one. We got better scramble animations later, I'm sure.

But seriously, why are we raising a fuss over such tiny things that few people outside these boards will notice, like the exact shade of the team helmets? We're sounding like Al Davis, when he would start every year by closely analyzing the new shipment of uniforms, making sure they weren't gray. They were silver and black. He would not have it otherwise. (ADD geek-out moment: I hope Al Davis is one of the legendary owners in M25. What a quirky guy. And yes, he really did that, every year.)

But would the vast majority of players notice? I certainly wouldn't. And I wouldn't care, as long as the product on the field played well. The Texans could wear yellow, for all I cared, as long as I was having fun.

Yeah, the defensive-line play could be better, I admit that. That's important to me, since I like to control a DE when I don't have the ball.

But come on, can't we show some love for Josh Looman and the other EA Tiburon devs? We give them a lot of flak for "this game is the same as last year," but we forget just how hard it is to program something of this magnitude.

That's why I'm giving Looman the benefit of the doubt when he says that editing ratings would cause a lot more harm than good (introducing bugs regarding goals and such), so maybe once the game is out, a programmer on here or at Under The Code can get really down and dirty with the source code (like how people proved that SimCity 2013 CAN be run offline just fine for a while), and prove to us whether or not changing ratings after a franchise starts really does cause as many bugs as Looman claims. If it does, Looman is vindicated. If it doesn't, then we can blame the suits for not letting us do this more easily. (That said, I'm not sure that's legal...in terms of the law. But it would answer a lot of questions.)

All I'm saying is that I'm giving Josh Looman and the dev team the benefit of the doubt. I'm still really excited for the new Owner Mode, and the chance to kick Jerry Jones and Bud Adams' butts out on the street and show them how a team SHOULD be run.

Yes, Madden 06 was a mistake. A huge mistake. But I'm willing to blame the suits for that--perhaps they ordered the game be gutted. We all remember that CGI trailer they showed, which led to a particularly well-regarded Penny Arcade strip in 2005, coining a term using the name of a male bovine, plus the last four letters of "screenshot." (Afraid to put the actual word here, in case I get a yellow card for bypassing censors. But I'm sure you know the word.)

But if this game is as good as I'm hoping, (almost) all is forgiven. There are little things to fix, yeah. But the point is that they get the BIG things out of the way first--making sure the game doesn't crash and whatnot. I remember NHL 12 crashing a lot on my PS3, and that was never patched (NHL 13 hasn't crashed at all yet, thankfully). It doesn't matter how good a game looks or plays if it's unstable.

Keep at it, Josh and Tiburon. I'm rooting for you.

[24]

No it wasn't perfect you're 100% right but the fact of the matter is we are still comparing current gen Maddens to a game that came out close to a decade ago. Madden 05 had killer game play it made advances that left us so amazed that we kept coming back for more. The concept of the hit stick was something we never seen before. Franchise mode was so deep that you could spend hours messing around with it before playing the first down of a game.

Madden should be light years ahead of where it is now. Instead of constantly trying to throw in a new feature they should have just kept building off of what they had. If It ain't broke don't fix it is the golden rule especially when it comes to a video game.

While I do give the Dev's credit for what they have done in the past few installments. Things all in all should be better. I will still purchase Madden this year like I do every year and will continue to do so. However I can't help but be a little disappointed.

It's Just my opinion. I don't mean to offend anyone by it.

[Broncos86]

Every year, something is re-added that was taken away. This entire console generation has been about getting back to where Madden once was. It took the ENTIRE generation to do this. Even last year, Madden lost owner mode. It's always something. In-game saves? It's stunning to me that route-based passing was pulled from Madden and has never seen a return.

That said, what people forget about last gen is that each year was just as much about the gimmick. Every year, we saw the latest gimmick. Playmaker controls, route-based passing, vision cone, hit stick. Yada yada yada. The difference is that last gen was a solid game early on in the lifespan of the console generation. This generation, Madden 06 - 09 was disaster.

I'll give several reasons why people look back and think fondly of Madden 04, 05, etc.

1) Nostalgia. It's always easy to look back and think fondly of year's past. Especially when those days were during our more youthful times.

2) Maturity of gaming. Gaming hadn't matured as much as today. In 2005, the expectations of what a football game could be were much lower. Every iteration was an improvement and advancement. These days, that bar is set higher, and thus we expect that much more.

If this generation's Madden didn't keep pulling/re-adding features we had once upon a time, this wouldn't be such an issue. This year, "Owner Mode" is this major bullet point. The very thing they didn't include last year that caused a TON of fuss. Now it's a "new feature." People get upset because features we had last generation still haven't seen a return. Heck, people lost the ability to play franchises with multiple people on one console. It's stuff like this....

[jpdavis82]

Quote: Originally Posted by Broncos86

Every year, something is re-added that was taken away. This entire console generation has been about getting back to where Madden once was. It took the ENTIRE generation to do this. Even last year, Madden lost owner mode. It's always something. In-game saves? It's stunning to me that route-based passing was pulled from Madden and has never seen a return. That said, what people forget about last gen is that each year was just as much about the gimmick. Every year, we saw the latest gimmick. Playmaker controls, route-based passing, vision cone, hit stick. Yada yada yada. The difference is that last gen was a solid game early on in the lifespan of the console generation. This generation, Madden 06 - 09 was disaster. I'll give several reasons why people look back and think fondly of Madden 04, 05, etc. 1) Nostalgia. It's always easy to look back and think fondly of year's past. Especially when those days were during our more youthful times. 2) Maturity of gaming. Gaming hadn't matured as much as today. In 2005, the expectations of what a football game could be were much lower. Every iteration was an improvement and advancement. These days, that bar is set higher, and thus we expect that much more. If this generation's Madden didn't keep pulling/re-adding features we had once upon a time, this wouldn't be such an issue. This year, "Owner Mode" is this major bullet point. The very thing they didn't include last year that caused a TON of fuss. Now it's a "new feature." People get upset because features we had last generation still haven't seen a return. Heck, people lost the ability to play franchises with multiple people on one console. It's stuff like this....

I'm going to try and be as honest and unbiased as possible about where I stand and how I feel about the sim community currently.

I agree with you but I think the current dev team is doing their best to get the game where it was and build off of that to take the game to new levels. Hopefully over the next year or two we will see a continued and consistent improvement in gameplay and game modes. We already know the presentation will have dynamic crowds and sidelines and all the bells and whistles but it's the X's and O's that will restore faith in this franchise. I think the more people see improved blocking logic and interactions at the los, improved player movement, Ai that makes sense, etc.. slowly but surely people will start to believe in the Madden franchise again. For some it will take an almost unachievable amount of improvement given the time frame they are looking at but that's just because they feel EA owes them for all the throw away years of development. I may have a softer stance than some but I can't blame people for feeling that way. For me it's going to take another year or two to really be happy with this franchise but I have confidence that will happen. For others it may take 5 years and for some they will never be happy because they want competition and someone else to make football games. Wherever you stand, just know that your opinion matters and you are as much a part of this sim community as the next guy. As we move forward be open minded to change but criticize constructively. It would be really nice to see an end to all the back and forth and let the past go, so we can all focus on enjoying the game we love again.

[d11king]

Quote: Originally Posted by 24

No it wasn't perfect you're 100% right but the fact of the matter is we are still comparing current gen Maddens to a game that came out close to a decade ago. Madden 05 had killer game play it made advances that left us so amazed that we kept coming back for more. The concept of the hit stick was something we never seen before. Franchise mode was so deep that you could spend hours messing around with it before playing the first down of a game. Madden should be light years ahead of where it is now. Instead of constantly trying to throw in a new feature they should have just kept building off of what they had. If It ain't broke don't fix it is the golden rule especially when it comes to a video game. While I do give the Dev's credit for what they have done in the past few installments. Things all in all should be better. I will still purchase Madden this year like I do every year and will continue to do so. However I can't help but be a little disappointed. It's Just my opinion. I don't mean to offend anyone by it.

Couldn't have said this any better 24.. The only thing I can say in response to the OP, is take The Show, NBA2K, Fifa, Madden and NHL, put them in a pool, and then figure out which one doesn't belong.

[d11king]

Quote: Originally Posted by jpdavis82

I'm going to try and be as honest and unbiased as possible about where I stand and how I feel about the sim community currently. I agree with you but I think the current dev team is doing their best to get the game where it was and build off of that to take the game to new levels. Hopefully over the next year or two we will see a continued and consistent improvement in gameplay and game modes. We already know the presentation will have dynamic crowds and sidelines and all the bells and whistles but it's the X's and O's that will restore faith in this franchise. I think the more people see improved blocking logic and interactions at the los, improved player movement, Ai that makes sense, etc.. slowly but surely people will start to believe in the Madden franchise again. For some it will take an almost unachievable amount of improvement given the time frame they are looking at but that's just because they feel EA owes them for all the throw away years of development. I may have a softer stance than some but I can't blame people for feeling that way. For me it's going to take another year or two to really be happy with this franchise but I have confidence that will happen. For others it may take 5 years and for some they will never be happy because they want competition and someone else to make football games. Wherever you stand, just know that your opinion matters and you are as much a part of this sim community as the next guy. As we move forward be open minded to change but criticize constructively. It would be really nice to see an end to all the back and forth and let the past go, so we can all focus on enjoying the game we love again.

I thought that was the case too when I heard they were bringing Owner Mode back. Madden 05 was a good game, and right before next-gen and they ended up going down the wrong path, and now that we've hit that same scenario again, it feels like they're going back to when the game was in its prime, and building from there and try to get it right this time. Me personally, it's going to take a while for me to believe they're going to get it right, there are way too many flaws with the gameplay and its been happening for far too long for me to just be content after 1 year. I'm a very pessimistic person, and I will continue to have low expectations for the game that way, I'm already prepared for when I play the travesty that they call Madden, and if the team and EASports put forth a masterpiece, I will be surprised and happy rather than let down after being so optimistic.

[Ice_Cold345]

Here is something that is kinda sad. EA basically used Madden 05's Season Mode for Madden 09 for the Wii. Yes, it's a Wii title, but not making an original Madden franchise mode for a title is pure laziness.

As for Madden of today, it's kinda bad how EA is just now making really a sequel to Madden 05 called Madden 25. They keep adding things from previous years rather than really expanding on past ideas and turning it into something new(Connected Careers, where the you like or not, is an example.) They pump up really one Major thing and some minor things each year, when they could add a bunch of stuff into one game, so it leaves the following years for new and possible innovative things to add.

Back then, outside of PCs (even then not exactly not what it is today), the graphics, console specs, etc. weren't what it is today. Also, in today's market, you have other sports games that are so well regarded as great captions of the sport(NBA 2K, MLB The Show, among others,) so when you see Madden and it's lack of options to play both sides of the coin (arcade/sim.) You have other games that are yearly titles that play so well and really don't feel like it was only made in a year.

Just because a current gen game looks better doesn't mean the older ones are worse. Look at the N64, some of those games are still fun as hell to play despite it's 3D limitations and it's low polygon count compared to today.

Just because how hard it is to program a game, doesn't mean we should be less critical of a game if it's complete crap. You don't have to be a five star chef to say a piece of food tastes like garbage or an art genius to say a piece of art is bad.

Yes, there is a new dev team now, but you can't just avoid the past if this game is really good. They say they are ready for the move to next gen, but are we sure? There last move was really bad and set Madden back for almost the entire generation.

[BleedGreen710]

I think a lot of frustration from this community, including me, comes not from the thought that 'madden stinks' but more the thought of 'imagine what could have been'. No one is going to deny the progress the game has made since Madden 2005 but gosh we sure as hell expected a bunch of things to have been added or fixed by now that still linger and while they may not be big deals (equipment, uniforms, etc) the fact they still remain exponentially increases the frustration people get over them.

Its like if EA Sports made a television that didn't have remote functionality. At first it wouldn't be so bad, people would be able to deal with having to get up to increase the volume or channel because hey its the only TV on the market. But after years and years of frustration it gets to the point where when EA Sports releases their yearly TV with no remote functionality you ignore every advancement its made (HD, flatscreen, etc) and don't buy it or just hate it because you cant use your remote.

I hope my analogy made sense.

Time is a powerful thing.