Position changes: Will every OLB switched to DE turn into a 99OVR?

[kehlis]

Quote: Originally Posted by AussieChiefsFan

I stopped reading when you called Justin Houston "any random/average OLB".

If you view him as more than an average OLB at this point it's probably a good thing you stopped reading.

[baller7345]

Quote: Originally Posted by Luck911

3-4 or 4-3 are different schemes but a pass rushing 3-4 LB and speed rush 4-3 DE are the exact same thing,Just like running stopping 4-3 DT is the same exact thing as 3-4 DE. The tricky thing about LB/DE is that most DE never really learn to cover and alot suck in space so they don't transition well to LB,Also on that same type of note most pass rush LB lack the straight up pass rushing abilities and technique to be a good consistent DE.Elite talent should be interchangeable at those position aka Mario Williams,DeMarcus Ware,Von Miller,Julius Peppers,etc they are such good athletes they can make up for lack of skill in covarage. It is easy fix for DE to LB just make sure zone and man coverage are low for most DE,Then DE who can switch to play lb have high zone or man coverage.The trickier thing is LB to DE because when rushing the pass their is no really difference the only thing i can think off is have outside LB have lower block shed than most DE and LB that can make the switch have higher Block shed.

They aren't the same thing. The traditional 3-4 defense is a two gap system while the 4-3 is a 1 gap system. While the edge rushers share more similarities in their assignment than the interior linemen do their is still differences. The OLBs are expected to play in coverage at a much higher rate than any DE in a 4-3 system. The interior linemen in the old double bubble 3-4 are playing the 4 tech and are lined up directly over their man. In the 4-3 the interior DTs are playing the 3 (think pass rushing DT like Suh) and the 1 tech (typically you're run stoppers). This means they can attack their gap freely while the 2 gap defenders have to attack and move their blockers instead. One of the biggest reasons that Warren Sapp struggled when he first went to the Raiders is because they moved him from his 3 tech DT position to a 2 gap 3-4 DE where you have to read and react instead of being in constant attack mode.

Now teams like the Ravens and Cowboys play a 3-4 Under defense which turns the old 2 gap 3-4 into a 1 gap defense. In these defenses the positions are much more interchangeable (the reason the Cowboy's can be so multiple) because the players are now attacking gaps instead of reading and moving blockers.

[Luck911]

Quote: Originally Posted by baller7345

They aren't the same thing. The traditional 3-4 defense is a two gap system while the 4-3 is a 1 gap system. While the edge rushers share more similarities in their assignment than the interior linemen do their is still differences. The OLBs are expected to play in coverage at a much higher rate than any DE in a 4-3 system. The interior linemen in the old double bubble 3-4 are playing the 4 tech and are lined up directly over their man. In the 4-3 the interior DTs are playing the 3 (think pass rushing DT like Suh) and the 1 tech (typically you're run stoppers). This means they can attack their gap freely while the 2 gap defenders have to attack and move their blockers instead. One of the biggest reasons that Warren Sapp struggled when he first went to the Raiders is because they moved him from his 3 tech DT position to a 2 gap 3-4 DE where you have to read and react instead of being in constant attack mode. Now teams like the Ravens and Cowboys play a 3-4 Under defense which turns the old 2 gap 3-4 into a 1 gap defense. In these defenses the positions are much more interchangeable (the reason the Cowboy's can be so multiple) because the players are now attacking gaps instead of reading and moving blockers.

My bad,I should have explained that a little better,I know they are difference but every transition i have seen from 4-3 to 3-4 it is simple a matter switching end to LB and not all 3-4 are created the same for example Suggs plays DE ,The ravens can list him at LB all they want too but everybody who watches their defense knows he is rarely in coverage,Most teams aren't playing true 3-4 like the Steelers have for years.In past it might have been true but most teams are playing hybrid version of the 3-4.

I shouldn't have made it inclusive but primary 3-4 pass rush LB and 4-3 speed rush in most case can be same exact player and in a alot of modern schemes 3-4 pass rusher rushes the passer most of the time.A better way for me to have said my point in alot of schemes it is pretty easy DE to play 3-4 lb and 1 tech DT to play 3-4 DE they share alot characteristics .

[volstopfan14]

Quote: Originally Posted by kehlis

If you view him as more than an average OLB at this point it's probably a good thing you stopped reading.

He was top 20 in sacks last year and went to the Pro Bowl. I'd say he's more than a "random/average LB."

[kehlis]

Quote: Originally Posted by volstopfan14

He was top 20 in sacks last year and went to the Pro Bowl. I'd say he's more than a "random/average LB."

That's fine.

I don't, he certainly has shown talent and can be great, but for the purposes of this thread and the point the OP was trying to make, he is a perfect example.

[FlyEaglesFly3]

Quote: Originally Posted by AussieChiefsFan

I stopped reading when you called Justin Houston "any random/average OLB".

I quit reading when you were an obvious homer.

[Jarodd21]

Quote: Originally Posted by volstopfan14

He was top 20 in sacks last year and went to the Pro Bowl. I'd say he's more than a "random/average LB."

He's most definitely above average...

[msdm27]

Quote: Originally Posted by Jarodd21

He's most definitely above average...

This doesn't need to become a semantics/opinions discussion.... let's just agree to say he's not a 85+ OVR player as a pass rushing OLB.

And if with ratings like that he'd become a 99 rated DE when switched to a 4-3 then the game would have a serious issue.

btw.....

Diego Miranda ‏@DiegoMB27 13h @Josh_Looman In older Madden moving any OLB to DE results in them being 99OVR, & moving DE to OLB would = losing OVR always, is this tuned?
Expand

Josh Looman ‏@Josh_Looman 3h
@DiegoMB27 Depends on what scheme they are in. if you are moving a pass rushing DE to a OLB in a cover 2 scheme, his overall will drop.


So I guess there's hope that the schemes actually avoid this issue from previous editions of the game