Bad CPU Run Alignment still in M25

[rudyjuly2]

The cpu still does not adjust to the offensive formations in Madden 25. Unbalanced formations with two TEs on the same side of the field were money plays last year. The cpu generally wouldn't adjust their LBs or DL (sometimes they would move them AWAY from the strong side) and a fast RB like Chris Johnson could run stretch plays out of an unbalanced set for crazy amounts of yards. I had to house rule myself from using those plays as it was so poorly defensed.

Well it appears M25 still has the same issue. The cpu defense lines their front 7 up in the base formation and makes no adjustments if the user offense lines up in balanced or unbalanced sets. There are at least 4 examples in the first 5 minutes of the Steelers (cpu) -Panthers (user) video of terrible run D alignment. Start watching at 1:45 and you will see 3 examples by 3:00. Note that on the run at 1:49 the strongside cpu ILB blatantly cheats and runs to the outside leaving a massive hole inside as though he knows the play call is to the outside. Maybe they will cheat the AI rather than adjust their positioning this year.



At 2:30 the user lines up with two TEs on the right side and then flips the play so both go over to the left. The cpu never slides to the strong side either time. The LBs should slide over and/or the DL shift over to help defend this play but they don't. A real OC would lick his chops every single time. This isn't realistic at all.

On the TD run at 2:55 you can see that the offense has a blocker for every defensive front 7 guy at the point of attack and the FB is an extra. That should never happen. He can take out the safety with nobody to stop the RB. Most designed plays have a hat on a hat in the box with the safeties free to go after the RB but in Madden the offense gets an extra blocker with the way the cpu lines up. Disappointing.

A very simple solution is to have the cpu shift their LBs (like we do with L1 or R1) in the direction of an extremely unbalanced set. You put two TEs on one side just have the cpu slide the LBs over pre-snap. Flip the play and slide them the other way. It would at least balance this out.

[LaW97]

I think it has to do with settings and sliders.

Im mostly play offline franchise and I see the CPU shift the d-line and lb's. They dont do it on every play but they do it occasionally

[friscob]

Quote: Originally Posted by LaW97

I think it has to do with settings and sliders. Im mostly play offline franchise and I see the CPU shift the d-line and lb's. They dont do it on every play but they do it occasionally

Lol no offense but why does every answer have to be the sliders for "you" people.

Not only did the defense not adjust but it's pathetic that he didn't score on the play. The reason why he didn't score is one of the problems that continues to plague these games..... the blocking. They still refuse to engage defenders.

[Jarodd21]

I'm glad you bought this up Rudy.. This was definitely a money play which worked about 80 percent of the time which resulted in me scrapping it from my playbook because the CPU could not stop it most of the time no matter what you do with the sliders. The CPU just didn't adjust to it. EA was trying to disguise coverages on Madden 13 by making the CB follow the WR to the other side of the field so you wouldn't be able to tell if the defense was in man or zone but it ended up messing up the outside containment against the run for the AI if you came out in those two TE formations with no WR on one side.. This definitely needs to get fixed before the game drops..

[shttymcgee]

Quote: Originally Posted by rudyjuly2

The cpu still does not adjust to the offensive formations in Madden 25. Unbalanced formations with two TEs on the same side of the field were money plays last year. The cpu generally wouldn't adjust their LBs or DL (sometimes they would move them AWAY from the strong side) and a fast RB like Chris Johnson could run stretch plays out of an unbalanced set for crazy amounts of yards. I had to house rule myself from using those plays as it was so poorly defensed. Well it appears M25 still has the same issue. The cpu defense lines their front 7 up in the base formation and makes no adjustments if the user offense lines up in balanced or unbalanced sets. There are at least 4 examples in the first 5 minutes of the Steelers (cpu) -Panthers (user) video of terrible run D alignment. Start watching at 1:45 and you will see 3 examples by 3:00. Note that on the run at 1:49 the strongside cpu ILB blatantly cheats and runs to the outside leaving a massive hole inside as though he knows the play call is to the outside. Maybe they will cheat the AI rather than adjust their positioning this year. At 2:30 the user lines up with two TEs on the right side and then flips the play so both go over to the left. The cpu never slides to the strong side either time. The LBs should slide over and/or the DL shift over to help defend this play but they don't. A real OC would lick his chops every single time. This isn't realistic at all. On the TD run at 2:55 you can see that the offense has a blocker for every defensive front 7 guy at the point of attack and the FB is an extra. That should never happen. He can take out the safety with nobody to stop the RB. Most designed plays have a hat on a hat in the box with the safeties free to go after the RB but in Madden the offense gets an extra blocker with the way the cpu lines up. Disappointing. A very simple solution is to have the cpu shift their LBs (like we do with L1 or R1) in the direction of an extremely unbalanced set. You put two TEs on one side just have the cpu slide the LBs over pre-snap. Flip the play and slide them the other way. It would at least balance this out.

I only watched the plays that you mentioned, but:

None of those are unbalanced sets. The 1st formation is just a TE/Wing formation. For it to be unbalanced, the WR would have to be on the same side as the TE/WING. The other 2 formations are normal pro formations.

As for the Defensive Alignment, neither of them are wrong either.

In the 1st play, the ILB runs outside because he is going to end up being accountable for the eventual #3 receiver (the FB) who takes an outside path.

In the 2nd play, the defense is originally in an Under alignment and after the shift they are in an Over alignment. The problem (from a defensive standpoint) is that the Corner does not properly play force. He retreats at the snap and then gets out-leveraged by the puller. The OLB misplays the down-crack combination, but that stuff happens.

How do you think the defense should align in the 3rd play? It contracted with the offense. The FB is at the Safety, sure, but the playside LB is unblocked.

Believe me, I feel like there is still a lot that needs improved, but in those 3 plays, there was no major problems.

If you want to see poor defensive alignment, watch the GB-San Fran playoff game from last year...

[rudyjuly2]

Quote: Originally Posted by shttymcgee

I only watched the plays that you mentioned, but: None of those are unbalanced sets. The 1st formation is just a TE/Wing formation. For it to be unbalanced, the WR would have to be on the same side as the TE/WING. The other 2 formations are normal pro formations. As for the Defensive Alignment, neither of them are wrong either.

Well by unbalanced I am really just saying they are overloaded sets. The offense is putting an extra two blockers to the strong side of the field. The defense is playing as though the offense is in a balanced formation. For the TD run at 2:55, how is the defense lined up properly? They are completely outmanned on the strong side at the point of attack with no free tackler pre-snap? How on earth is that good defense?

At 2:30 the offense lines up with an extra two guys on the strong side (right side) and then flips the formation to have the extra two on the left side and the cpu doesn't make any adjustments. If I am playing on defense I slide my LBs over. At the very least I slant my DL to the strong side of that play. As it stands the defense is completely outmanned just by how they lined up.

I don't see how a defense can stay in the exact same alignment and be expected to defend a balanced two TE set (one on either side, no strong side) AND defend an overloaded set with both a FB and TE on one side or two TEs on the same side. The blocking matchups and angles greatly favour the offense if the defense doesn't adjust imo. The weakside LBs need to slide over more. There is no need to have two of them so far off on the weak side imo. On an overloaded set I'd like to see 4 of the 7 defenders in the box to be lined up on the strong side of the ball. At least shade the NT that way.

I see this as a major problem and I had to house rule myself against using an overloaded set in M13 since the cpu couldn't defend it well.

[rudyjuly2]

Just some examples of showing how I'd like to see 4 of the 7 defensive box players shaded to the strong side. Or shift the safeties over and bring the SS in the box. You can see in the images below that a defense normally makes at least some adjustment to the strong side when the offense overloads it. At least shade the NT in a 3-4, do something!

Michigan is an basic pro personel set but with two TEs to one side. The front seven shifts with four on that side of the ball.



Fairly balanced set with only one man overloaded (TE as FB is directly behind the ball) but the defense still has the NT shaded to the strong side and a SS up in the box.



Both the FB and TE are lined up on the strong side and the defense adjusts. We see 4 defenders on the strong side with the strong side LB really on the DL to contain the outside run. The LBs have shifted here.



Doing this right would also make the counter and weak side running game better as well imo.

[shttymcgee]

Quote: Originally Posted by rudyjuly2

Well by unbalanced I am really just saying they are overloaded sets. The offense is putting an extra two blockers to the strong side of the field. The defense is playing as though the offense is in a balanced formation. For the TD run at 2:55, how is the defense lined up properly? They are completely outmanned on the strong side at the point of attack with no free tackler pre-snap? How on earth is that good defense? At 2:30 the offense lines up with an extra two guys on the strong side (right side) and then flips the formation to have the extra two on the left side and the cpu doesn't make any adjustments. If I am playing on defense I slide my LBs over. At the very least I slant my DL to the strong side of that play. As it stands the defense is completely outmanned just by how they lined up. I don't see how a defense can stay in the exact same alignment and be expected to defend a balanced two TE set (one on either side, no strong side) AND defend an overloaded set with both a FB and TE on one side or two TEs on the same side. The blocking matchups and angles greatly favour the offense if the defense doesn't adjust imo. The weakside LBs need to slide over more. There is no need to have two of them so far off on the weak side imo. On an overloaded set I'd like to see 4 of the 7 defenders in the box to be lined up on the strong side of the ball. At least shade the NT that way. I see this as a major problem and I had to house rule myself against using an overloaded set in M13 since the cpu couldn't defend it well.

The alignment is not the issue, they are all sound from a real-life football perspective.

The problem is that video game football is not the same as real-life. Each gap is accounted for in the clips you chose, however, the execution is terrible in the 2nd clip and the playside LB is unblocked in the 3rd, however he doesn't make the play.

As for the shifting in the 2nd play, so what? That's exactly how an over defense would align to the formation. In real football (especially in college and below), many fronts are called to the field or the boundary, making the offensive formation insignificant. They are not out-numbered and the if the corner would've replaced against the crack block properly, the play goes for a loss.

I don't know if I'm seeing things different than you in that 3rd clip, but this is what I am seeing:

....................F............................. .....SS..........................................
.................................................. ...........................................
.C.........................B...........M.......... .................................C................
.......................W....T...N...T.........S... ..............................................
.X......................T...G..C..G...T..Y........ ..........................
.....................................Q............ .................................Z................
...........................................F...... .........................................
.....................................T............ .........................................

That is a standard 2 high look vs a normal 21 personnel formation. In the play, neither ILB is blocked, because the FB goes directly at the SS.

If you want to bring down a safety, fine, but that's a different defense.