Ran a few tests on route running...

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by dghustla

Thank you and that is my point. Only question is, now that EA has been working on next gen for 2 years. Did they take the time to create this feature for the future?

I would think not considering the above quote. I didn't get into a back and forth with Emmdotfrisk about it on TSO because it's not his call, he is just the messenger but it explains why the game is what it is, imo. For example, casuals and media feel like the current presentation is broadcast quality, don't really care about optimal realism, animation differential, data based ratings, CPU v CPU, true coach mode, defensive lock cam, real injury system, working penalties, etc, so Tiburon doesn't believe those things warrant priority or dev time. Madden is made just good enough to satisfy the media market and their target demographic, casuals.

Our only hope for Madden would be if some devs were to actually go the extra mile in their free time to add something like a "sim" setting and other things.

[ggsimmonds]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

According to who? Like someone else was just alluding to, I don't get what is so difficult about having a "sim" setting, seems to me it would just be using factory preset sliders and tuner. if for some odd reason actually creating a UI "sim" option is to hard, they could just make All Madden the defacto "sim" setting, with the aforementioned presets. According to an EA community manager there is no sim setting in Madden because casuals and the media are perceived as not caring about one enough to justify the dev time in creating for hardcore gamers. At least that's the way I understood it but I'll post the exact quote so people can read it for themselves. Big_FN_Deal said: I have asked this question every year for the last few years so I will keep my tradition going, why don't Madden and NCAA Football have a separate simulation setting? You make a great point that most gamers don't want to bother with sliders, they want factory presets, so it seems to me that providing a "classic" and "simulation" setting, like other sports sims, would make sense. Emmdotfrisk-EASPORTS Community Manager replied: I've been saying this for years as well, but what it comes down to is dev time. We are constantly up against time and have to prioritize features and improvements. While a simulation setting is big with the hardcore community the average gamer and media won't tell the difference.... http://forums.traditionsportsonline..../#post-1419541

You are not understanding what I am saying. You are speaking of pre-made slider sets and if that is what you think the game needs for a hardcore/simulation setting I have to disagree.

What I am alluding to are the basic aspects of the game; sliders tweak but we need more than that. Remember my passing defense thread? Things like adaptive AI, a defense that reacts to the offense, pattern matching defense, complex and varied defensive assignments, etc. Those are the things that are needed for a true simulation mode, sliders can't give us that.

So the reason it is not so simple is because a simulation mode would require two separate lines of code for one game. But if you would be happy with EA making a preset slider set and calling it "simulation" mode and calling it a day that is okay but I want more than that.

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by ggsimmonds

You are not understanding what I am saying. You are speaking of pre-made slider sets and if that is what you think the game needs for a hardcore/simulation setting I have to disagree. What I am alluding to are the basic aspects of the game; sliders tweak but we need more than that. Remember my passing defense thread? Things like adaptive AI, a defense that reacts to the offense, pattern matching defense, complex and varied defensive assignments, etc. Those are the things that are needed for a true simulation mode, sliders can't give us that. So the reason it is not so simple is because a simulation mode would require two separate lines of code for one game. But if you would be happy with EA making a preset slider set and calling it "simulation" mode and calling it a day that is okay but I want more than that.

So you think other games with a "sim" optional setting have separate lines of code for one game? I don't, I think those games fundamentally create their game as realistic as possible and tune/slider the presets according to each setting. Tiburon doesn't seem to agree with that approach and try to fundamentally create their games "balanced", which I think is absurd but that's besides the point. The point being that they could still easily provide a "sim" preset setting, which has the game tuned/slidered to play as realistic as currently possible.

Not providing a "sim" setting, ie a factory preset that Tiburon deems the most realistic experience possible in Madden, is a completely separate issue from how fundamentally realistic the game is created.

[ggsimmonds]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

So you think other games with a "sim" optional setting have separate lines of code for one game? I don't, I think those games fundamentally create their game as realistic as possible and tune/slider the presets according to each setting. Tiburon doesn't seem to agree with that approach and try to fundamentally create their games "balanced", which I think is absurd but that's besides the point. The point being that they could still easily provide a "sim" preset setting, which has the game tuned/slidered to play as realistic as currently possible. Not providing a "sim" setting, ie a factory preset that Tiburon deems the most realistic experience possible in Madden, is a completely separate issue from how fundamentally realistic the game is created.

No, I don't think other games have separate code. That is why I said that 2k's "sim" setting is nothing more than a premade slider set.

Ideally this is what I want: Two separate difficulty levels. One for stick skill which is basically what we have now, and one for how, well intelligent, the AI is. If you wish to call having both at the all madden level hardcore or sim that is cool.

And to answer your first question of according to who, per your post it is according to the developers.

If M25 was released the same way with the only change being a premade slider base that EA called "sim" most of he sim players would not be happy.
I cannot be certain, but my guess is that is why the developers don't think it is worth it; they know a sim setting would require more than modifying sliders. This is why the two are not completely separate issues

[PGaither84]

Basically, EA Tiburon feels that the time it takes to make the game far more realistic isn't worth the effort. They COULD do it, but they think that doing so would come at the expense of fun and would alienate their target audience, which is NOT the hard core NFL fans.

They COULD improve the offensive line and defensive line interactions and make play calling more realistic at the same time by rewriting the code.* But they don't think it is worth the time and effort. The game works well enough for them and such a change, in their opinions, would not show enough returns in sales to justify the work it would need to get right. That's not my opinion either. That came from the various horses mouths. Like it or hate it, that is the way it is.

*Right now the computer knows the defensive play call. They know who is pass rushing and who isn't. That is why, to generate any real confusion, you have to hot route/audible a blitzer to a QB spy o hook zone and blitz manually. That way the AI thinks you are not comign and that can buy you that step or two you need before it reacts and tries to block you.

So, I learn to just live with it. I didn't buy Madden 13. I bought Madden 25 used from someone who got the special edition for the NFL Sunday ticket. I could care less about competing online with casuals and/or try hards. I care more about just having fun and playing as realistic as the game will allow me.