The Infinity/Ignite Engine is close to being a FAIL...

[DarkFudge]

Im really starting to really loathe this Infinity/Ignite Engine...and I feel that Im the perfect example of "Be careful for what you wish for" Back in the earlier days of Madden when it first arrived on the 360 and PS3, I was a big advocator of the "EA needs to make the game more dynamic by adding a real physics engine into the game" fan club.

And after playing the much superior physics based simulator, Backbreaker, I still believe this to be the case.....but I just dont think that this Infinity/Ignite, or whatever they want to call it next year engine is close to being the solution for that Holy Grail of truly dynamic gameplay.

While I agree that Backbreaker was a big fail as a deep football simulator, its physics engine, was tighter, more refined and yielded all around more dynamic results!

I truly feel that the Football video game community is either getting severely duped or EA just doesn't really know how to create true motion physics based interactive game play

Im very frustrated, but even moreso dissappointed that this game still hasnt been able to break out of its scripted, and predictable gameplay after all these years, and now has even, in my mind, taken several steps backwards now by delivering a game that still feels very deja vu and repetitive when it comes to on the field situations and AI predictable situations & outcomes now rolled into a dynamic physics model that seems to trigger some really wonky and rubbery unnatural and rediculous looking end of the play pileups.

What I was really expecting from a true physics based engine was a game that rendered completely inifinite results and situations on the field from the moment the ball was snapped....not just at the end of the play once the player is going down to the ground on top of the other player.

I was expecting to see dynamic reaching and stretching animations when players went up to catch a pass. I was expecting to see a whole plethor of different types of impacts and running styles and players repositioning themselves after they make contact with another player. I was hoping to see the AI make mistakes and misreads.

I was expecting to see just so much more organic and dynamic game play then just a bunch of floppy fish dynamics at the end of a tackle. To me Madden 10 still remains the pinnacle of an all around encompassing package that the developers should have invested the time and money to build upon.

There is just too much soft wishy washy and mushy game play in this last release and I'm really starting to lose confidence in either the Infinity/Ignite engine or EA's ability to truly create a real physics based football engine....or maybe both

I may be in the minority in here so please share your thoughts./...I'd love to know if Im just expecting too much?

[Jm0ney2001]

Ignite is completly different than infinity and its only on next gen and not really sure how it can be a fail if it hasn't even been played. Nice try though.

[djordan]

Quote: Originally Posted by Jm0ney2001

Ignite is completly different than infinity and its only on next gen and not really sure how it can be a fail if it hasn't even been played. Nice try though.

Does this look different?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aQnm...etailpage#t=40

[Neolithic]

Nope, it looks sharper, and I"m sure there are some mathematical differences under the hood. However, to the eye of the gamer, it's far FAR to similar to what they have already. Individual blades of grass is all fine and well, until you see someone make the same stumbling animation from touching a pixel on a runner that you have seen since the engine the new engine was built on was made. Unfortunately, EA has burned all their currency to buy the benefit of the doubt right now. My guess is that the differences are that they can apply the engine to more dynamic objects at once (ala more non involved players and background players can be animated with the engine in real rime) not any difference in the actual engine itself. Probably next year at the earliest I would think before you see anything truly groundbreaking next gen wise.

Sad to say, this may just turn into the next "3 year plan" that we've had resets on now for what....the last 3 years now or so?

I got hopes, but, like I said, EA Sports is just all out of "benefit of the doubt" with me right now.

[DarkFudge]

Well after watching that video, it seems to leave me somewhat encouraged that the next Gen game should have a deeper algorithm under the hood chipping away to hopefully create a more dynamic and immerse game play experience for the player.....but, what we have now currently on Madden 25 360/PS3 is still, in my eyes....a step back from what Madden 10 had delivered several years ago.

There was more polish, better presentation, and just a more all around robust Franchise experience for the user

This game currently has rubbery Gumbi like physics with soft/absent tackle sound fx and wierd/wonky player movements, disjointed receptions, fall downs and odd looking hunched over zig zag running with hitting that lacks an immersive, player intuitive 'Boooo yeahhhh' feel to it.

Maybe im in the minority....I was just expecting alot more from an intense, realistic on the field experience with this year's version

[RLaguna]

I dont think your in the minority at all...at least I hope not. Alot of what you mentioned is on point....i specifically agree with what you said about the Backbreaker engine...playing defense especially in Backbreaker was a much more viceral and explosive experience!

Players felt more grounded, solid and had weight to them. I think in Madden one of the major weeknesses of this engine is the players feel floaty, hollow and kind of glide across the screen and into different movements.

To be fair, the engine seems cleaner than last year and there are some specific isolated animations that look perfectly on point, but alot of the player movements especially when they shift weight and change directions feels very wonky and feels as if your steering them or shifting weight on a motorcycle game or something....it just feels off. Another thing that is the contact doesnt feel very tight or finely tuned...When players make tackles, its often involves a player coming at them with Crabby Shack arms extended all hunched over several seconds before the hit.

And your 100% correct when you say the tackles seem soft and missing sounds. I think I actually posted that in another thread back when the demo came out....it seems like there are several immersive sound fx that are absent that could give the game a more solid feel in the trenches such as grunts groins, helmets and pads impacting and even the sounds of players catching the ball, even running across the turf, lots of little things that could make the game feel more polished and tighter would be a big improvement!

Im holding out until the next gen to see if they nail some more detail and AI

[younggoku]

Quote: Originally Posted by Jm0ney2001

Ignite is completly different than infinity and its only on next gen and not really sure how it can be a fail if it hasn't even been played. Nice try though.

Actually to my knowledge ignite is just the name that encompasses various components to the game, one of them being the infinity engine.

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by djordan

Does this look different? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aQnm...etailpage#t=40

At first I was going to tell the OP that even though I understand what they're getting at, it's too early to judge the Ignite Engine but looking at that game play of next gen M25, after having actually played current M25, is quite disappointing, imo. I remember when this video dropped and having not seen enough current gen M25 to compare it to, only M13, it seemed ok, nothing special but a definite improvement, with seemingly a lot of room to improve before release. However, again, having played M25 personally for going on two weeks, the OP's concern seems valid, even this early. I won't breakdown that video in hindsight because it's moot but after playing M25, you can spot some of the same issues in that footage rather quickly. Now cue the "it's just a demo/early build" stuff and we are few more cliches closer to Groundhog Day on new consoles.

In all sincerity, I hope the living worlds and overall presentation have been ramped up to distract gamers because the AI, physics and movement appear to be status quo. Crazy thing is that for all my issues with Madden and I have a bunch, the general lack of fluidity wasn't among the top tier, until now. I think it's because the foot planting in that video looked like such an improvement over the swerving in M13, that gave that video a refreshing quality, at the time but not after seeing the pseudo foot planting in current gen M25.

After the scrutiny that M25 seems to have received by more reviews than I can remember in sometime, again unless Tiburon has some great presentation elements up their sleeves and/or Madden 2006 has lowered the bar to the point where just porting over what current gen has into next gen is a huge accomplishment, M25 next gen could have a rough debut.