Make Madden Fun Again.

[JaymeeAwesome]

Quote: Originally Posted by Armor & Sword

Funny and annoying at how some people know how to enjoy their game? While I do not disagree with some of your points I can tell you the two things I bolded like "No Switch" and "no user catch" are cornerstones to some of us and our approach to "sim" gaming with Madden. The problem is a lot of us who have been playing Madden since 1990 understand in full detail it's shortcomings as a football video game. First and foremost.....it is a video game and it has plenty of arcade elements. As a two player game.......it is one of the best in the business. Lights out fun. As a one player offline experience for us sim geeks.....we have had to find ways to play this game to keep it "real" vs a sub par AI. Games like The Show and NBA2K have far better AI.....not even close. So since the AI is underdeveloped by todays standards......using a "no switch" rule on defense is far more realistic and puts even more emphasis on player development for your other 10 teammates....and their back-ups. I love playing with a no switch rule because it really makes me try to guess the play, the intended receiver, the direction of the play etc etc etc. And the AI has a decent chance at success if their team executes. I lose games playing this way. It does work well. Not user catching takes away the human stick skill (arcade element) and puts it squarly on the the QB's ability to pass to a tight window and the receivers ratings in hauling in the pass. Plus a huge bonus is when you play on slow and let the ratings handle the catch...the animations you get are great. It puts the animations on display and makes for a far more organic visual experience playing Madden or NCAA football. Anyway other than those two key things.....and using my entire playbook and not cheesing the CPU running the same 5-7 plays.....that's pretty much it. I do control my RB....for me that is the best part of Madden 25. I love the running game, love controlling the jukes, spins, stiff arm, following the flow and blocking etc. I also think EA did a wonderful job with fatigue this year on both games (NCAA and Madden) and making you understand sub packages for your DL, RB's etc. If you play 15 minute quarters with a 15-18 second accelerated clock.....you get realisitc results. I have had games I could not keep my defense off the field because of too many short drives.....and slowly but surely the CPU starts sustaining drives and I end up subbing out my winded DL.....and suffering the consequences of my back ups playing. I think Madden finally made a really strong title for the 360/PS3 in M25. Shortcomings? Yes no question. But far better than all the previous ones IMO as a complete package. Some swear by 12......rightfully so it is a solid title. Some feel this was a step back from 13.....I beg to differ as 13 for me was a sloppy mess and bug ridden to the hilt and we lost the ability to control everything if we desired. Plus no Madden share! It's the longest I have played Madden in 8 years. That says a ton to the quality of the game this year with good sliders, great rosters, and the ability to accept the game for what it is and what it is not. What other choice do you have? It's the only football games we have right now and for the forseeable future. Please let's not go off on this tangent in the thread......old news, dead horse....thank you. The fact I am stil playing and loving the game and do not intend to stop playing makes me so happy as a sports gamer. Madden was my first true love with sports games back in 1990. Then Bill Walsh college football came out too. I never felt satisfied with baseball till MVP 2005 and then with the great Show series starting in 2009 to the present. So my point is......if your not willing to try some different things to enjoy the game and steadfastly want to play it the way you play it......then the game will not meet your expectations. I don't think it's right. I am not saying anyone is wrong in their dis-satisfaction with Maddens glaring warts......but I love playing football games....I love playing sports games...and all through my video gaming life I have always worked and found ways to make up house rules for games I know I could truck the computer. Hell I can do that with almost any sports game.....except The Show (those guys are good man). That's why there is sliders, roster editors and that is why I hang out here. I love reading and getting inspired by other players/posters who share my passion and fascination with video games (sports games in particular) and come up with ways to enjoy the games for what they are. Do I want improvement....of course we all do. I thought M-25 made huge strides for franchise mode......it's living and breathing far more than ever before in this series history. I can assign playbooks and tweak tendancies and get the AI to play very close to their real life counterpart. Presentation is sorely lacking and I think that is where people sometimes get bored. But not me. Not with the classic rosters available.....so much fun re-living NFL history. Also the draft is far better now than ever before. It feels like a draft is really taking place....the ability to trade up or down, the story lines for the fictional classes etc. It's cool stuff. Anyway rant over.

Great post man. You understand how to adjust to the game you are given and making it fun.

[Robrain]

I think you misunderstood my point.

I was simply expecting some more creative suggestions, instead of:

-"Well, don't use turbo."
-"Don't try to intercept the ball."
-"Put the controller down on the floor and only touch the controller with your feet - you're not allowed to use your hands."

I find all of these kind of ideas to be equally absurd. You might as well be tying one hand behind your back (literally) while you play the game.

I think better suggestions would include MORE options that expand the gameplay, instead of a rulebook on how to limit yourself.

While the CPU AI can be problematic, it can be equally problematic for your own team. Guys simply not even attempting to make tackles, guys not jumping for jump balls and instead consistently letting defenders have clear paths to intercept it. These can at times be game-breaking AI flaws, and I don't feel the CPU AI really needs a lot of sympathy because of this.

My intent when I play Madden isn't to lay down and let the CPU have their way with me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zLlIdZikDk

[Armor and Sword]

Quote: Originally Posted by Robrain

I think you misunderstood my point. I was simply expecting some more creative suggestions, instead of: -"Well, don't use turbo." -"Don't try to intercept the ball." -"Put the controller down on the floor and only touch the controller with your feet - you're not allowed to use your hands." I find all of these kind of ideas to be equally absurd. You might as well be tying one hand behind your back (literally) while you play the game. I think better suggestions would include MORE options that expand the gameplay, instead of a rulebook on how to limit yourself. While the CPU AI can be problematic, it can be equally problematic for your own team. Guys simply not even attempting to make tackles, guys not jumping for jump balls and instead consistently letting defenders have clear paths to intercept it. These can at times be game-breaking AI flaws, and I don't feel the CPU AI really needs a lot of sympathy because of this. My intent when I play Madden isn't to lay down and let the CPU have their way with me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zLlIdZikDk

Your really hyperbole at this point.

I use the hit stick, I juke, I use lead passing, I float balls in…or I throw on a comeback route. I make audibles, I hot route, I houte route my defender, I use coverage audibles, I flip plays at the line…I do it a ton.

I user pass rush, I use swim moves, power moves, I use XP, I in no way lay down.

I just do not switch on defense and I let the CPU make the catch.

Hardly tying my hand behind my back….or using my toes to move my players.

Your misunderstanding my post…..in a big way. I made some subtle changes to the way I play he CPU……otherwise I will kill them.

Creative? That is creative…..the game has serious shortcomings against the AI.

That's the point.

Their is no magic bullet.

We need a better AI opponent. That's the bottom line.

[Robrain]

Quote: Originally Posted by Armor & Sword

Your really hyperbole at this point. I use the hit stick, I juke, I use lead passing, I float balls in…or I throw on a comeback route. I make audibles, I hot route, I houte route my defender, I use coverage audibles, I flip plays at the line…the do a ton. I user pass rush, I use swim moves, power moves, I use XP, I in no way lay down. I just do not switch on defense and I let the CPU make the catch. Hardly tying my hand behind my back….or using my toes to move my players. Your misunderstanding my post…..in a big way. I made some subtle changes to the way I play he CPU……otherwise I will kill them. Creative? That is creative…..the game has serious shortcomings against the AI. That's the point. Their is no magic bullet. We need a better AI opponent. That's the bottom line.

I don't understand why you would let the CPU make the catch, because they almost never adjust to the ball. Switching to the receiver is basically the only way I know of getting the receiver to adjust to the ball. THAT is a pretty severe AI shortcoming.

[Armor and Sword]

Quote: Originally Posted by Robrain

I don't understand why you would let the CPU make the catch, because they almost never adjust to the ball. Switching to the receiver is basically the only way I know of getting the receiver to adjust to the ball. THAT is a pretty severe AI shortcoming.

I throw to the open WR. I check down, I use 1st read, 2nd read, 3rd read. If I try to throw to a blanketed WR I will pay.

You would be amazed how cool it is to not user catch and let, route running, CIT, SPC CTH and keep feet in bounds traits……take over.

The animations look awesome. Once he catches the ball……I take over.

[PGaither84]

@Armor & Sword


Unless something has been updated in a ptach, the fatigue system is all messed up. Well, at least the auto sub feature is.


In Madden 12 and in my blog you can see I stole KBLover's 100 fatigue set up and it was working wonders. In Madden 25 it deosn't work at all. I tell certain position to never sub out, like offensive linemen, but they still do and stay out for a long time. In Madden 12, fatigue palyed a huge role in the outcome of a game. Going 3 and out, or putting a long sustained drive made a huge differnece. How the opposing defnese played on the first drive ready to go in comparison to the 4th quarter... a differnece of night and day.


In Maddne 25 I haven't seen that at all.

[Armor and Sword]

Quote: Originally Posted by PGaither84

@Armor & Sword Unless something has been updated in a ptach, the fatigue system is all messed up. Well, at least the auto sub feature is. In Madden 12 and in my blog you can see I stole KBLover's 100 fatigue set up and it was working wonders. In Madden 25 it deosn't work at all. I tell certain position to never sub out, like offensive linemen, but they still do and stay out for a long time. In Madden 12, fatigue palyed a huge role in the outcome of a game. Going 3 and out, or putting a long sustained drive made a huge differnece. How the opposing defnese played on the first drive ready to go in comparison to the 4th quarter... a differnece of night and day. In Madden 25 I haven't seen that at all.

Autosubs are FUBAR on M25. I have tried everything. So as far as getting RB rotations....not working via auto subs.


However.....I do use formation subs and package subs when needed when fatigue starts to affect the trenches for me. I also plug in my 2nd RB in certain formations to get them carries etc. I wish we had the funtionality of M12's AUTO SUB's and formation subs (sticking week to week).....but Fatighe does work in M25....unfortunately we can't use our auto-subs to make life easier in having rotations automated.


And for the life of me why they could not fix formation subs sticking week to week like they did in Madden 12 is beyond frustrating (simply make a formation subs screen in the team section ala NCAA!!!).....but I have learned to live with it and work around it....because the game itself is a really a ton of fun. I deal the hand I am dealt.


Old school gamers like us have thick skin.....back in the day....WTF was a patch? We bought the game.....and whatever bugs or AI shortcomings that it came with...you lived with it and made the game work some how, some way with sliders, house rules or whatever. Because the the other option was either an inferior other game......or no other game. If there was a better game....you went out and got that one.


I remember when there were 4 football titles out there......I still played Madden more than all of them. Because it was always more fun. I tried QB Club, Gameday (which was not bad at all).....then i went to 2K and loved it. But I still loved my Madden.


Anyway......the key to fatigue this year is to keep it close to default. It works as intended over the length of a game and RB's with lower fatigue ratings tend to weaken by the 4th quarter.


For example in my 1990 Dolphins replay Sammy Smith (remember him?) will give me 2-2.5 strong quarters....but if I push him over 20-22 carries....things go downhill. Knowing this I pace him to 10-13 carries in the first half if he is going well and then start really mixing in Stratford and Logan in the second half.....it's really cool. Some guys are energizer bunnies...some are not.


Same for DT and DE. I have a decent rotation going with that in my current Dolphins CFM. It makes a difference in the pass rush....big time late in games.

[Robrain]

Fatigue is messed up this year because they directly tied injuries to low fatigue.

If you get caught from behind after a long play (60-70+ yards), it's like a guaranteed injury for that player because their fatigue will be low.

I'm scared to death for my Kick Returner every time he breaks one down the sideline.