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ODogg · 05-11-2004, 11:11 PM

Quote:

HMcCoy said:
I remember reading an interview from a sports game developer that said that it's tough to put a premium on franchise options and extras because a majority of focus groups clearly show that only a very small percentage of a games fanbase even use the franchise. I would imagine that the percentage that actually transfers files from NCAA is around 2-3%. Its a factor for us hardcore sports gamers, but a relatively small factor overall.

Last season when Madden was released, there was a RIOT at the local Gamespot(On Harvard). There were hundreds of people in the parking lot, and all everyone was talking about was the money they would make that night gambling on Madden. There were very few people there that even knew there was an "Owners" mode.

IMO, Maddens popularity is based solely on the fact that after 12 years, EVERYONE KNOWS HOW TO PLAY IT.

All you ever have to do is dial up a few friends, crack some brews, and EVERYONE from the 48 year-old, 12-year Madden vet who couldn't time a stiff-arm correctly to save his soul to the 15 year-old little brothers who don't know a dime package from a dime bag, can have a good time.

Thats priceless. No matter HOW good ESPN is or ever gets, they will never be able to challenge the level of comfort and familiararity Madden players feel. EA allows EVERY level of gamer to be successful. You can stay in the pocket, call a balanced offense, really strategize, and enjoy th Madden experience... OR you can get drunk, fade back 40 yards every play, and throw bombs up and down the field and STILL enjoy what Madden offers...It can be all things to all people. ESPN can't say that. Not everyone is good at tapping the "A" button real fast while controlling their man...Not everyone can use their peripheral vision and move around in a crumbling pocket while looking for the open man...Not everyone has the hand/eye to be good at the precise stickwork it takes to really get it going on the ground....Madden allows for those players with very little "gaming" skills to still put money on the table, be competitive, and HAVE FUN!. EA doesn't require you to be a gamer or even a football fan. VC does, that wipes out about 1.5 million potential buyers.

Add an owners mode for the 100 thousand(out of 4+ million) or so fans who enjoy a robust franchise mode, and the best marketing dept. in the business, and it'll be tough for ESPN to ever hope to overtake Madden.

As an ESPN fan, as long as they continue to develop and market their game with STRICTLY hard-core football fans in mind I'l always be happy with their product.

Wow I actually agree with an ESPN fan. That's about the best analysis I've seen yet about why Madden will remain the king, if not forever, at least for a long time into the foreseeable future.

This is one thing I've been contemplating myself. As someone who has bought both games since they were made I've always played both but enjoyed Madden more. I've always entertained the notion, but am not quite convinced, that one compelling reason I don't like ESPN as well and may never like it as well is quite simple..because it is not Madden..

I can't say that for a certainy yet because I honestly don't believe the actual game of ESPN is quite as good as Maddens. But i'm not so sure if even if ESPN was better, even by my own admission, i'd still play it as much as I do Madden. I guess we'll just have to see.

Nutzzz414 · 05-12-2004, 02:49 AM

Quote:

Nutzzz414 said:
I'll be honest. I just don't think that ESPN is no where near better than Madden. Now I think that there are some things that are better in ESPN. But when it comes right down to it, the thing that there is no comparison is the control of the game. In madden, it just seems like I am in control of more things. I just don't like that running game on ESPN. I think that the power ups on ESPN is so cheese.
with madden you're always finding something new. I can play Madden or NCAA 2004 right now and still enjoy it.

O.K I'll elaborate. First, Let's take out the cheese players because this doesn't refer to those wack people. What make madden so great is the fact that it can be played in any style effectively if you're good at it. A passing team, a running team, a defensive team, a balance team, etc. If you are a great madden player, you can play and win a game with a QB like Mike Vick , or a Qb like Drew Bledsoe if you play within their style. The power up remark was in reference to the hold down the button until the your arrow fills up, which is wack. I think that ESPN is a good game just not a great game.
I am a manual catcher, and some of you probaly don't know what that means. It means that I take control of everything I throw to my reciever. It means I take control of my DB's when the ball goes in the air. Madden just has a flow to it that is....madden. When you have two great football minds playing madden, its just no comparison.
And I don't buy the notion that the only reason madden is selling is because of NCAA. Madden was selling before you could transfer rosters. I work at gamestop, so I try to be as unbias as possible when I play the two NFL games. I just like madden better. I don't think that everybody buys it because it madden. I will admit that some people do, but I remember when Gameday was the joint over amdden. When dreamcast came out NFl 2k was better than madden. ESPN basketball proved that you can at least put a put a chink in the EA armor. But what it will take (and even if you don't agree with my opinions, you have to agree with this). Madden would have to be flat out awful for a 2-3 year span, and at the same time another game will have to raise the bar to a different level. that's what happen to NBA live. And that what ESPN NFL is good for right now. It will not let madden "take a year off". ANd for that reason I hope ESPN keep putting out games that are innovative. SO Madden can't feel like it caan take a year off.

Nutzzz414 · 05-12-2004, 02:52 AM

And by the way. why do we have to keep tapping on the buttons in ESPN Football? I thought that was the reason why they made pressure sensitive buttons, so you don't have do do that no more in games

Badgun · 05-12-2004, 08:39 AM

Quote:

ODogg said:
Theres a big flaw in this theory and that is that Sega at one time also made an NCAA game and they still got beat and beat badly. Maybe the big secret in why Madden is still winning the war is simply because it's a better game despite alot of the advances the competition has put forward.

It's not that it's a better game, it's the perception that it is a better game. Not to mention that EA Sports and its franchise titles go back a a long way. Madden, NBA Live, NHL Hockey...all have been around forever it seems.

Sega/ESPN has made better games than EA over the last two years. Madden and ESPN Football were a virtual tossup last year, Sega's NBA game has been better than Live for several years, and there's no question the baseball and hockey games by ESPN have been better than EA's offerings.

But, EA's games will always outsell Sega/ESPN because of the perception that EA makes better games...they don't. They have in the past and that's what keeps everyone coming back. Maybe someday it will change before everyone else folds and then we have nothing but EA games to buy...which will be a sad day if it comes.

lionsfan49 · 05-12-2004, 09:07 AM

Quote:

jmood88 said:

Quote:

Nutzzz414 said:
I'll be honest. I just don't think that ESPN is no where near better than Madden. Now I think that there are some things that are better in ESPN. But when it comes right down to it, the thing that there is no comparison is the control of the game. In madden, it just seems like I am in control of more things. I just don't like that running game on ESPN. I think that the power ups on ESPN is so cheese.
with madden you're always finding something new. I can play Madden or NCAA 2004 right now and still enjoy it.

Power ups? You must be playing mario kart.

Cant you hold down "a" and do a super charged move?

jmood88 · 05-12-2004, 09:09 AM

Quote:

lionsfan49 said:

Quote:

jmood88 said:

Quote:

Nutzzz414 said:
I'll be honest. I just don't think that ESPN is no where near better than Madden. Now I think that there are some things that are better in ESPN. But when it comes right down to it, the thing that there is no comparison is the control of the game. In madden, it just seems like I am in control of more things. I just don't like that running game on ESPN. I think that the power ups on ESPN is so cheese.
with madden you're always finding something new. I can play Madden or NCAA 2004 right now and still enjoy it.

Power ups? You must be playing mario kart.

Cant you hold down "a" and do a super charged move?

How is that a powerup I guess in real life people don't ever wait for someone to hit them and put all of their power in it.

lionsfan49 · 05-12-2004, 09:16 AM

Quote:

jmood88 said:

Quote:

lionsfan49 said:

Quote:

jmood88 said:

Quote:

Nutzzz414 said:
I'll be honest. I just don't think that ESPN is no where near better than Madden. Now I think that there are some things that are better in ESPN. But when it comes right down to it, the thing that there is no comparison is the control of the game. In madden, it just seems like I am in control of more things. I just don't like that running game on ESPN. I think that the power ups on ESPN is so cheese.
with madden you're always finding something new. I can play Madden or NCAA 2004 right now and still enjoy it.

Power ups? You must be playing mario kart.

Cant you hold down "a" and do a super charged move?

How is that a powerup I guess in real life people don't ever wait for someone to hit them and put all of their power in it.

You "wait for someone to hit you" in tackle football and you lose.

jmood88 · 05-12-2004, 09:18 AM

Quote:

lionsfan49 said:

Quote:

jmood88 said:

Quote:

lionsfan49 said:

Quote:

jmood88 said:

Quote:

Nutzzz414 said:
I'll be honest. I just don't think that ESPN is no where near better than Madden. Now I think that there are some things that are better in ESPN. But when it comes right down to it, the thing that there is no comparison is the control of the game. In madden, it just seems like I am in control of more things. I just don't like that running game on ESPN. I think that the power ups on ESPN is so cheese.
with madden you're always finding something new. I can play Madden or NCAA 2004 right now and still enjoy it.

Power ups? You must be playing mario kart.

Cant you hold down "a" and do a super charged move?

How is that a powerup I guess in real life people don't ever wait for someone to hit them and put all of their power in it.

You "wait for someone to hit you" in tackle football and you lose.

I'm not talking about standing there. I'm talking about something like the greg jones run or any stee jakson run. When running backs bowl people over.

05-11-2004, 11:11 PM	#33
ODogg Hall Of Fame OVR: 51 Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 37,298 Blog Entries: 8	Re: The only reason why Madden is still winning the war Quote: *HMcCoy said:* I remember reading an interview from a sports game developer that said that it's tough to put a premium on franchise options and extras because a majority of focus groups clearly show that only a very small percentage of a games fanbase even use the franchise. I would imagine that the percentage that actually transfers files from NCAA is around 2-3%. Its a factor for us hardcore sports gamers, but a relatively small factor overall. Last season when Madden was released, there was a RIOT at the local Gamespot(On Harvard). There were hundreds of people in the parking lot, and all everyone was talking about was the money they would make that night gambling on Madden. There were very few people there that even knew there was an "Owners" mode. IMO, Maddens popularity is based solely on the fact that after 12 years, EVERYONE KNOWS HOW TO PLAY IT. All you ever have to do is dial up a few friends, crack some brews, and EVERYONE from the 48 year-old, 12-year Madden vet who couldn't time a stiff-arm correctly to save his soul to the 15 year-old little brothers who don't know a dime package from a dime bag, can have a good time. Thats priceless. No matter HOW good ESPN is or ever gets, they will never be able to challenge the level of comfort and familiararity Madden players feel. EA allows EVERY level of gamer to be successful. You can stay in the pocket, call a balanced offense, really strategize, and enjoy th Madden experience... OR you can get drunk, fade back 40 yards every play, and throw bombs up and down the field and STILL enjoy what Madden offers...It can be all things to all people. ESPN can't say that. Not everyone is good at tapping the "A" button real fast while controlling their man...Not everyone can use their peripheral vision and move around in a crumbling pocket while looking for the open man...Not everyone has the hand/eye to be good at the precise stickwork it takes to really get it going on the ground....Madden allows for those players with very little "gaming" skills to still put money on the table, be competitive, and HAVE FUN!. EA doesn't require you to be a gamer or even a football fan. VC does, that wipes out about 1.5 million potential buyers. Add an owners mode for the 100 thousand(out of 4+ million) or so fans who enjoy a robust franchise mode, and the best marketing dept. in the business, and it'll be tough for ESPN to ever hope to overtake Madden. As an ESPN fan, as long as they continue to develop and market their game with STRICTLY hard-core football fans in mind I'l always be happy with their product. Wow I actually agree with an ESPN fan. That's about the best analysis I've seen yet about why Madden will remain the king, if not forever, at least for a long time into the foreseeable future. This is one thing I've been contemplating myself. As someone who has bought both games since they were made I've always played both but enjoyed Madden more. I've always entertained the notion, but am not quite convinced, that one compelling reason I don't like ESPN as well and may never like it as well is quite simple..because it is not Madden.. I can't say that for a certainy yet because I honestly don't believe the actual game of ESPN is quite as good as Maddens. But i'm not so sure if even if ESPN was better, even by my own admission, i'd still play it as much as I do Madden. I guess we'll just have to see.

05-12-2004, 02:49 AM	#34
Nutzzz414 Rookie OVR: 2 Join Date: Jul 2002	Re: The only reason why Madden is still winning the war Quote: *Nutzzz414 said:* I'll be honest. I just don't think that ESPN is no where near better than Madden. Now I think that there are some things that are better in ESPN. But when it comes right down to it, the thing that there is no comparison is the control of the game. In madden, it just seems like I am in control of more things. I just don't like that running game on ESPN. I think that the power ups on ESPN is so cheese. with madden you're always finding something new. I can play Madden or NCAA 2004 right now and still enjoy it. O.K I'll elaborate. First, Let's take out the cheese players because this doesn't refer to those wack people. What make madden so great is the fact that it can be played in any style effectively if you're good at it. A passing team, a running team, a defensive team, a balance team, etc. If you are a great madden player, you can play and win a game with a QB like Mike Vick , or a Qb like Drew Bledsoe if you play within their style. The power up remark was in reference to the hold down the button until the your arrow fills up, which is wack. I think that ESPN is a good game just not a great game. I am a manual catcher, and some of you probaly don't know what that means. It means that I take control of everything I throw to my reciever. It means I take control of my DB's when the ball goes in the air. Madden just has a flow to it that is....madden. When you have two great football minds playing madden, its just no comparison. And I don't buy the notion that the only reason madden is selling is because of NCAA. Madden was selling before you could transfer rosters. I work at gamestop, so I try to be as unbias as possible when I play the two NFL games. I just like madden better. I don't think that everybody buys it because it madden. I will admit that some people do, but I remember when Gameday was the joint over amdden. When dreamcast came out NFl 2k was better than madden. ESPN basketball proved that you can at least put a put a chink in the EA armor. But what it will take (and even if you don't agree with my opinions, you have to agree with this). Madden would have to be flat out awful for a 2-3 year span, and at the same time another game will have to raise the bar to a different level. that's what happen to NBA live. And that what ESPN NFL is good for right now. It will not let madden "take a year off". ANd for that reason I hope ESPN keep putting out games that are innovative. SO Madden can't feel like it caan take a year off.

05-12-2004, 02:52 AM	#35
Nutzzz414 Rookie OVR: 2 Join Date: Jul 2002	Re: The only reason why Madden is still winning the war And by the way. why do we have to keep tapping on the buttons in ESPN Football? I thought that was the reason why they made pressure sensitive buttons, so you don't have do do that no more in games

05-12-2004, 08:39 AM	#36
Badgun MVP OVR: 12 Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Virginia	Re: The only reason why Madden is still winning the war Quote: *ODogg said:* Theres a big flaw in this theory and that is that Sega at one time also made an NCAA game and they still got beat and beat badly. Maybe the big secret in why Madden is still winning the war is simply because it's a better game despite alot of the advances the competition has put forward. It's not that it's a better game, it's the perception that it is a better game. Not to mention that EA Sports and its franchise titles go back a a long way. Madden, NBA Live, NHL Hockey...all have been around forever it seems. Sega/ESPN has made better games than EA over the last two years. Madden and ESPN Football were a virtual tossup last year, Sega's NBA game has been better than Live for several years, and there's no question the baseball and hockey games by ESPN have been better than EA's offerings. But, EA's games will always outsell Sega/ESPN because of the perception that EA makes better games...they don't. They have in the past and that's what keeps everyone coming back. Maybe someday it will change before everyone else folds and then we have nothing but EA games to buy...which will be a sad day if it comes.

05-12-2004, 09:07 AM	#37
lionsfan49 Dtrt Fnby OVR: 9* Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,106	Re: The only reason why Madden is still winning the war Quote: *jmood88 said:* Quote: *Nutzzz414 said:* I'll be honest. I just don't think that ESPN is no where near better than Madden. Now I think that there are some things that are better in ESPN. But when it comes right down to it, the thing that there is no comparison is the control of the game. In madden, it just seems like I am in control of more things. I just don't like that running game on ESPN. I think that the power ups on ESPN is so cheese. with madden you're always finding something new. I can play Madden or NCAA 2004 right now and still enjoy it. Power ups? You must be playing mario kart. Cant you hold down "a" and do a super charged move?

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05-12-2004, 09:09 AM	#38
jmood88 Sean Payton: Retribution OVR: 40 Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New Orleans, LA Posts: 34,640 Blog Entries: 1	Re: The only reason why Madden is still winning the war Quote: *lionsfan49 said:* Quote: *jmood88 said:* Quote: *Nutzzz414 said:* I'll be honest. I just don't think that ESPN is no where near better than Madden. Now I think that there are some things that are better in ESPN. But when it comes right down to it, the thing that there is no comparison is the control of the game. In madden, it just seems like I am in control of more things. I just don't like that running game on ESPN. I think that the power ups on ESPN is so cheese. with madden you're always finding something new. I can play Madden or NCAA 2004 right now and still enjoy it. Power ups? You must be playing mario kart. Cant you hold down "a" and do a super charged move? How is that a powerup I guess in real life people don't ever wait for someone to hit them and put all of their power in it.

05-12-2004, 09:16 AM	#39
lionsfan49 Dtrt Fnby OVR: 9* Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,106	Re: The only reason why Madden is still winning the war Quote: *jmood88 said:* Quote: *lionsfan49 said:* Quote: *jmood88 said:* Quote: *Nutzzz414 said:* I'll be honest. I just don't think that ESPN is no where near better than Madden. Now I think that there are some things that are better in ESPN. But when it comes right down to it, the thing that there is no comparison is the control of the game. In madden, it just seems like I am in control of more things. I just don't like that running game on ESPN. I think that the power ups on ESPN is so cheese. with madden you're always finding something new. I can play Madden or NCAA 2004 right now and still enjoy it. Power ups? You must be playing mario kart. Cant you hold down "a" and do a super charged move? How is that a powerup I guess in real life people don't ever wait for someone to hit them and put all of their power in it. You "wait for someone to hit you" in tackle football and you lose.

05-12-2004, 09:18 AM	#40
jmood88 Sean Payton: Retribution OVR: 40 Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New Orleans, LA Posts: 34,640 Blog Entries: 1	Re: The only reason why Madden is still winning the war Quote: *lionsfan49 said:* Quote: *jmood88 said:* Quote: *lionsfan49 said:* Quote: *jmood88 said:* Quote: *Nutzzz414 said:* I'll be honest. I just don't think that ESPN is no where near better than Madden. Now I think that there are some things that are better in ESPN. But when it comes right down to it, the thing that there is no comparison is the control of the game. In madden, it just seems like I am in control of more things. I just don't like that running game on ESPN. I think that the power ups on ESPN is so cheese. with madden you're always finding something new. I can play Madden or NCAA 2004 right now and still enjoy it. Power ups? You must be playing mario kart. Cant you hold down "a" and do a super charged move? How is that a powerup I guess in real life people don't ever wait for someone to hit them and put all of their power in it. You "wait for someone to hit you" in tackle football and you lose. I'm not talking about standing there. I'm talking about something like the greg jones run or any stee jakson run. When running backs bowl people over.

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The only reason why Madden is still winning the war