Why the Anger at Madden?

[Paytonsplace]

There has been alot of discussion about the money plays in Madden 2005. Some people respond "Just don't use them cheeser". I think those folks are sadly missing the point. The anger at Madden comes from its stone age AI. An AI that fails to adapt isn't much of an AI. There are several other games in non-sports genres that exhibit the AI that we wish Madden would have. Hell, there are chess programs from at least 5 years ago that offer up more competition. What fun would a chess program be if it played a foolish game and you can beat it in 10 moves. Would you say just don't use that combination of moves? No you just wouldn't play the game. That is what we have today in Madden.

Sadly, Madden 2005 has,as its core engine Madden 98,99 etc... This is understandable. Rebuilding a code whose line count probably exceeds 1 million (I'm sure that is an underestimate) is no easy task. However, what it means is that the AI in Madden 2005 is flawed at its foundation and simply needs to be rebuilt from the ground up. EA has set a precedent here, Due to poor sales and strong competition, EA junked its flawed "Triple Play" engine and created a much improved Baseball game in "MVP BAseball". This is what Madden needs. Unfortunately, unlike baseball, EA has no reason to do this. Sales for Madden are great and the public is content with last decade's AI. And people will just say "Don't use the money plays" (actually why doesn't EA just take them out so that we can't use them?). As a longtime fan of Madden ( Genesis 1991) I want to see this game improve. The tech is there, the AI can be written (It has been done in other games, look at Winning 11 vs FIFA or Halo). I want Modern AI in Madden 2006. I was tired of Money plays 10 years ago (they had them in the NHL series and in FIFA as well).

[SportsTop]

Again, wait until Madden 2007 when the build will be out for the next generation consoles.

We can whine, complain, and talk about boycotting Madden 2006 all we want, but what kind of business sense would it make for them to rewrite code they would just have to rewrite a year later. I'm sure EA thinks long-term and their proposed engine upgrades are on a powerpoint presentation somewhere deep in the vaults of their corporate offices.

You can find easy ways to cheese your way through everything in life, not just video games. It's up to you whether or not you take advantage of them or not.

I find this year's game better than any of its predecessors. Then again, if I don't like something, I just don't buy it.

[Paytonsplace]

Quote: Originally Posted by Squint

Again, wait until Madden 2007 when the build will be out for the next generation consoles. We can whine, complain, and talk about boycotting Madden 2006 all we want, but what kind of business sense would it make for them to rewrite code they would just have to rewrite a year later. I'm sure EA thinks long-term and their proposed engine upgrades are on a powerpoint presentation somewhere deep in the vaults of their corporate offices. You can find easy ways to cheese your way through everything in life, not just video games. It's up to you whether or not you take advantage of them or not. I find this year's game better than any of its predecessors. Then again, if I don't like something, I just don't buy it.

There was no rebuild from PS1 to PS2. I have no reason to believe that there will be a fundamental rebuild when we go to the next generation. I hope that they do but it may not be worth it for EA.

I am not advocating boycotting EA, rather I think the consumer should be a bit more demanding.

oh, and being demanding of myself is how I choose to go through life.

[p2xgamers]

Quote:

Some people respond "Just don't use them cheeser". I think those folks are sadly missing the point.

No, we aren't. But since the AI can't adapt yet, we're telling you how to cope with it meanwhile.

[Paytonsplace]

Quote: Originally Posted by p2xgamers

No, we aren't. But since the AI can't adapt yet, we're telling you how to cope with it meanwhile.

That is one way of looking at it. However, I hope that EA doesn't see that as an excuse not to do anything about it. Given Madden 2005, it would seem that EA is using this as an excuse.

[tee7roxah]

vote with your wallet then that simple.

[Sidewindersca]

Taking that chess example, the AI is just every single possible move programed into and then it thinks so far ahead each time it moves. I cant remember but wasnt even Deep Blue (is that it) beaten by a human? It takes a ton of memory and speed to run every single thing a human would do, and no current console hardware can mimick it that way

[Kanobi]

Quote: Originally Posted by Paytonsplace

The anger at Madden comes from its stone age AI. An AI that fails to adapt isn't much of an AI.

The thing is Madden is not the only football game where there are money/high percentage play and/or routes that the cpu doesn't adapt to. There are AI holes that can be exploited in all the games this yr. So if you're going to rant about AI not adapting then you have to address football sims in general...not just Madden.