Pancake Question

[pbtiger]

Guys, I spent way too much time yesterday trying to find some statistical information to assist with getting O-Line settings for blocking that might feel close to realistic. Considering pancake blocks are not a NFL statistic maintained for records, it was hard to come up with much. Something I had not taken into account prior to the research was another type of block called a knockdown block. Not too sure what this block is outside of the equivalent of a pancake except on a passing play/downfield block by a receiver, etc., but the point is it was stated as a seperate stat (i.e., Tackle for team X had 75 pancake blocks and 90 knockdown blocks for 2005). In the game stats for Madden there is only pancakes listed. My question is I now wonder if both types of blocks are being kept, but the totals are the sum of the two. If that is the case it would stand to reason the totals might be a little higher than simply just an average pancake total for a game, which appears to be 3-5 for good linemen.

Just a thought that occured to me that may just be me trying to rationalize the high totals. I'd be interested to hear what others might think.

[NCAA]

Re: Pancake Question

Guys, I spent way too much time yesterday trying to find some statistical information to assist with getting O-Line settings for blocking that might feel close to realistic. Considering pancake blocks are not a NFL statistic maintained for records, it was hard to come up with much. Something I had not taken into account prior to the research was another type of block called a knockdown block. Not too sure what this block is outside of the equivalent of a pancake except on a passing play/downfield block by a receiver, etc., but the point is it was stated as a seperate stat (i.e., Tackle for team X had 75 pancake blocks and 90 knockdown blocks for 2005). In the game stats for Madden there is only pancakes listed. My question is I now wonder if both types of blocks are being kept, but the totals are the sum of the two. If that is the case it would stand to reason the totals might be a little higher than simply just an average pancake total for a game, which appears to be 3-5 for good linemen.

Just a thought that occured to me that may just be me trying to rationalize the high totals. I'd be interested to hear what others might think.

It is impossiable to get realistic pan cakes at a realistic level. but I will give you some advice set your knockdown slider even with the pass block and set the tackle slider even with the run block that way it will keep you or the cpu from getting un even pank cakes with each other on the average but after all this is madden so nothing is perfect. try my sliders and you will know what i am talking about. me and the cpu average around 10-12 pan cakes together for the top 2 pan cake leaders on each team.

[booker21]

Re: Pancake Question

To have pancakes realistc.. or to achive this goal.. both teams have to avg the same as the sim engine.

I didn´t find a way to do it, without hurting other part of the game (running game).

[MC Fatigue]

Re: Pancake Question

what on earth is a pancake in football?

[pbtiger]

Re: Pancake Question

what on earth is a pancake in football?

It is where an offensive player knocks a defender flat when throwing a block. It typically is on a running play. The problem I have had is wide receivers getting as many as 4 or 5 a game, which just does not seem real at all. Like I said, if the stats are also including knockdowns, which seem to be a whole different animal, then they may be fairly representative.

Booker, you have indeed pointed out the problem. How do you fix it without impacting other parts of the game? There may not be a solid solution.

[ChuckMonts]

Re: Pancake Question

having WR's and other non Olineman should not affect progression so this is not really a big issue. it seems like through simming a bit the average for a pretty good olineman is around 5 a game but sometimes the top olineman on a team will average closer to 4 with lesser teams. just sim week one of the regualr season in a franchise and see the highs and lows so you can try to simmulate that.

[Playmakers]

Re: Pancake Question

It is impossiable to get realistic pan cakes at a realistic level. but I will give you some advice set your knockdown slider even with the pass block and set the tackle slider even with the run block that way it will keep you or the cpu from getting un even pank cakes with each other on the average but after all this is madden so nothing is perfect. try my sliders and you will know what i am talking about. me and the cpu average around 10-12 pan cakes together for the top 2 pan cake leaders on each team.

First off it's not the KDWN Slider. It's the Break BLK Slider and TKL SLider that impacts the amount of pancakes. The KDWN Slider is purely in control of pass defense and has nothing to do with pancakes.

You have the balance the the BRK SLIDER, TKL and RUN/PASS BLK Sliders to get low pancake totals. Which is one of the reason's why I scrapped my All-Madden sliders and started over because too many guy's were getting slammed to the ground.

[NCAA]

Re: Pancake Question

First off it's not the KDWN Slider. It's the Break BLK Slider and TKL SLider that impacts the amount of pancakes. The KDWN Slider is purely in control of pass defense and has nothing to do with pancakes.

You have the balance the the BRK SLIDER, TKL and RUN/PASS BLK Sliders to get low pancake totals. Which is one of the reason's why I scrapped my All-Madden sliders and started over because too many guy's were getting slammed to the ground.

actually you are wrong i have done test on this the kncockdown slider is for everyone on defense and if one of those 4 that i mentioned is off balance the the deffese sliders that you set in favor of regardless of cpu or human eigher the human or the cpu one will have off balanced pan cakes because one of you is getting shut down on the run if you don't belive me try my sliders.

[Playmakers]

Re: Pancake Question

actually you are wrong i have done test on this the kncockdown slider is for everyone on defense and if one of those 4 that i mentioned is off balance the the deffese sliders that you set in favor of regardless of cpu or human eigher the human or the cpu one will have off balanced pan cakes because one of you is getting shut down on the run if you don't belive me try my sliders.

Dude please show me where it states the KDWN slider controls anything other than pass deflections?

You can set the CPU and Human RUN BLK/PASS BLk Sliders to zero and get lower pancake totals and it doesn't have anything to do with the KDWN slider.

That is purely a pass defense slider man for all players. It controls there ability to contest passes not their ability to stay on their feet when engaged with a blocker.

Put HUMAN BRK BLK and TKL Slider at ZERO then put the CPU RUN BLK Slider at 50 along with your KDWN SLider and come back and tell me the KDWN Slider allowed you to keep the pancakes low because it was even with the Blocking sliders.

[DrewBledsoe]

Re: Pancake Question

Dude please show me where it states the KDWN slider controls anything other than pass deflections?

You can set the CPU and Human RUN BLK/PASS BLk Sliders to zero and get lower pancake totals and it doesn't have anything to do with the KDWN slider.

That is purely a pass defense slider man for all players. It controls there ability to contest passes not their ability to stay on their feet when engaged with a blocker.

Put HUMAN BRK BLK and TKL Slider at ZERO then put the CPU RUN BLK Slider at 50 along with your KDWN SLider and come back and tell me the KDWN Slider allowed you to keep the pancakes low because it was even with the Blocking sliders.

He's right about this, its taken me ages to get my team's (in Franchise mode)individual pancakes equal to a simmed teams, where players x and y, being of equal ability get the same no of pancakes over a season, even though one plays 16 actual games (my guy) and another 16 simmed games.

Get the pancakes too high, and your Oline progresses too fast and gets better when they don't deserve too, too low and they don't get the progress they should deserve. My current sliders give as close a number to a simmed Ai team over a season as I believe possible.(Though still probably aren't tough enough, but I'm getting there )

Oh yes,and knockdown has absolutely nothing to do with this.

[Playmakers]

Re: Pancake Question

He's right about this, its taken me ages to get my team's (in Franchise mode)individual pancakes equal to a simmed teams, where players x and y, being of equal ability get the same no of pancakes over a season, even though one plays 16 actual games (my guy) and another 16 simmed games.

Get the pancakes too high, and your Oline progresses too fast and gets better when they don't deserve too, too low and they don't get the progress they should deserve. My current sliders give as close a number to a simmed Ai team over a season as I believe possible.(Though still probably aren't tough enough, but I'm getting there )

Oh yes,and knockdown has absolutely nothing to do with this.

I'm guessing there is still some confusion over Madden years ago. The KDWN Slider wasn't what it is today and that's why I think some guy's are confused. They have now made that slider strictly a pass defense slider and it has no control over Pancakes any longer like it did 5 years ago I believe.

[sroz39]

Re: Pancake Question

I'm guessing there is still some confusion over Madden years ago. The KDWN Slider wasn't what it is today and that's why I think some guy's are confused. They have now made that slider strictly a pass defense slider and it has no control over Pancakes any longer like it did 5 years ago I believe.

All you have to do is go in to current gen NCAA 07, go to the Knockdown slider and it describes it for you. If NCAA STILL thinks it has to do with pancakes, then he's just being ignorant.

[DrewBledsoe]

Re: Pancake Question

I'm guessing there is still some confusion over Madden years ago. The KDWN Slider wasn't what it is today and that's why I think some guy's are confused. They have now made that slider strictly a pass defense slider and it has no control over Pancakes any longer like it did 5 years ago I believe.

I meant I agree with you Playmakers , I should have typed you are right I suppose, but I said in last line "Knockdown has nothing to do with this"...

[Playmakers]

Re: Pancake Question

I meant I agree with you Playmakers , I should have typed you are right I suppose, but I said in last line "Knockdown has nothing to do with this"...

I understood you....

I think it would be much easier if EA just allowed guy's to hold their block's for a split second or two instead of just throwing guy's to the ground as if they way 150 lb's. I've never understood why EA has to allow guy's to plant each other in the ground just to make blocking successful. This can be accomplished by simply implementing a system in which guy's just hold their blocks when engaged or push and shove but not run over other guy's like a Mack Truck.

[Bondsfan]

Re: Pancake Question

For years now we've all been waiting for Madden to fix this pancake problem but they never do. All they have to do is make Oline progression a result of your running game stats and sack totals... just take pancakes out of it. The problem is that the running game either allows for a huge number of pancakes and everyone makes the probowl, or you adjust sliders to take the number of pancakes down and running the ball becomes impossible. I've tried everything and I haven't been able to find a happy medium where you can run the ball effectively (I play with a running team in Pittsburgh) but yet not get a ton of pancakes.