Can Game Speed & Threshold Be Used Universaly

[dolfanfrank]

can one use any given slider set here with any game speed & threshold setting or do those two make a major difference?

I preffer normal game speed however it seems most use slow,also whats the best threshold Im still unclear on how that effects the game

[aces01]

Re: Can Game Speed & Threshold Be Used Universaly

can one use any given slider set here with any game speed & threshold setting or do those two make a major difference?

I preffer normal game speed however it seems most use slow,also whats the best threshold Im still unclear on how that effects the game

For your first question. I would say that most slider sets are played at their best with the threshold the person has given. It does make a pretty big impact on how the game plays out. You could always try changing them around while testing, but the safest bet is using what the person put out there.

For your second question, it's all up to how you want the game to feel. From my understanding, if the threshold is at 0, it makes a bigger differential in the players speeds. This means that a player with 99 speed will be A LOT faster than a player with 75 speed. The higher you go with the threshold, the speed margin becomes less and less. I use a threshold at 65 in my slider set because I wanted less big plays, but I still wanted the fast players to seem fast during the game. In the end, it really comes down to what you want the game to feel like. Hopefully that helped.

[dolfanfrank]

Re: Can Game Speed & Threshold Be Used Universaly

Yes it helped.

I just can't seem to find the right set

my biggest issue thus far is user controlled pass rush
seems impossible to get to the qb in M11.

I have tried every thing with no luck

[aces01]

Re: Can Game Speed & Threshold Be Used Universaly

Yea getting pressure on the qb isn't easy this year. In my slider set I can get around 2-3 sacks per game, but I don't control the line myself. I'll usually sack the qb when my coverage is great, and he doesn't have anywhere to throw it. I wish there was legitimate pressure and the qb wouldn't want to throw the ball away instead of taking a sack, but you just have to stick with it for now.

[St. Chaos]

Re: Can Game Speed & Threshold Be Used Universaly

My recommendation for the threshold setting is 64. I found it to be perfect in Madden 10, and that still holds true for Madden 11.

Not seeing any huge plays really out of anybody that shouldn't be getting em (Chris Johnson, Mike Wallace, Adrian Peterson, etc... your super speedsters basically). And even when I see em, with the exception of Chris Johnson, usually a couple of the players on the field have a chance to do something about the play before it winds up being 6, unless of course its as a result of completely blown coverage.

That's dead on realistic imo... the only defensive player that could MAYBE catch Johnson imo is Ike Taylor, and quite frankly he's never paying enough attention to do so. Not to mention, that only applies to real life

[pokerplaya]

Re: Can Game Speed & Threshold Be Used Universaly

My recommendation for the threshold setting is 64. I found it to be perfect in Madden 10, and that still holds true for Madden 11.

Not seeing any huge plays really out of anybody that shouldn't be getting em (Chris Johnson, Mike Wallace, Adrian Peterson, etc... your super speedsters basically). And even when I see em, with the exception of Chris Johnson, usually a couple of the players on the field have a chance to do something about the play before it winds up being 6, unless of course its as a result of completely blown coverage.

That's dead on realistic imo... the only defensive player that could MAYBE catch Johnson imo is Ike Taylor, and quite frankly he's never paying enough attention to do so. Not to mention, that only applies to real life

100 threshold is stopwatch speeds, and I'm absolutely positive. Playing as much as I have at 100 threshold, I'll also tell you that people are not unrealistically caught from behind... They run what they are supposed to run at normal/100. Not to say your setting may not be perfect for you, but this is what I've found from a ludicrous amount of testing.

EDIT: when I say I'm "absolutely positive" I know this from doing a LOT of 40 yard testing and from knowing other posters and people in the overall Madden community who have done the same. Its stopwatch speeds. As far as people not getting caught from behind, an example is Jahvid Best. He's got a 95 speed, and you can take it to the bank that if I get the corner, I'm gone.

[St. Chaos]

Re: Can Game Speed & Threshold Be Used Universaly

And that would be great if all (or even most) of Madden's speed ratings were accurate, but since their not I don't prefer either the 0 or 100 methods personally.

With that said, I have no clue how you manage to not get caught from behind using someone with a mere 95 speed... Must have been Vs some slow safeties over the top, or a slow secondary.

[pokerplaya]

Re: Can Game Speed & Threshold Be Used Universaly

And that would be great if all (or even most) of Madden's speed ratings were accurate, but since their not I don't prefer either the 0 or 100 methods personally.

With that said, I have no clue how you manage to not get caught from behind using someone with a mere 95 speed... Must have been Vs some slow safeties over the top, or a slow secondary.

I have several videos I could post if you'd like. I've had the CPU return a fumble some 90 yards with Antwan Odom who is only like an 89 speed for example! Best has had QUITE a few breakaway runs for me, I couldn't imagine playing with a CJ!

[pokerplaya]

Re: Can Game Speed & Threshold Be Used Universaly

Also, thinking about how they word how the slider works is the kicker for me. At 100, you would expect that it is completely ratings driven, as it sounds as if anything lesser is altering the speed "capability" of every player, whereas even if you think the players ratings may not be wholly accurate - I still want those situations to be decided by the "athletes" and not a RNG or a "turbo boost."

[St. Chaos]

Re: Can Game Speed & Threshold Be Used Universaly

Also, thinking about how they word how the slider works is the kicker for me. At 100, you would expect that it is completely ratings driven, as it sounds as if anything lesser is altering the speed "capability" of every player, whereas even if you think the players ratings may not be wholly accurate - I still want those situations to be decided by the "athletes" and not a RNG or a "turbo boost."

I'd think 50 would be the "natural" players actually.

It would be different if the slider were a one way scale, but it's not, it's a 2 way, hence 50 should be the balanced number.

Even if it weren't though, 0 would be the ratings-driven side, not 100. As scales tend to run least to greatest, so 0 should provide the least (or no) modification to the player ratings.

Either way, neither works imo because of the simple fact that so many ratings are inaccurate, and Madden still has a very large emphasis on speed (granted, Madden 11 is certainly the best in years at balancing overall ability Vs speed, perhaps the best ever).

[pokerplaya]

Re: Can Game Speed & Threshold Be Used Universaly

I'd think 50 would be the "natural" players actually.

It would be different if the slider were a one way scale, but it's not, it's a 2 way, hence 50 should be the balanced number.

Even if it weren't though, 0 would be the ratings-driven side, not 100. As scales tend to run least to greatest, so 0 should provide the least (or no) modification to the player ratings.

No, it says a lower setting provides the greatest differential between players. A higher setting makes there a lesser differential. It doesn't make players run faster than they should (i.e. if they have Desean Jackson as a 4.1 in the game, he runs a 4.1 on normal, but Chris Johnson still runs almost neck and neck with him, whereas Jahvid Best is a step or so slower.) You have to remember, you have some of the quicker OLB's running 4.5's and 4.6's now there is NOT that great a differential between players except on the respective lines (and players like Suh post halfway quality times for men of their size).

This is just my opinion, but I know what I've seen from doing speed tests in practice mode, and also what other posters that are greatly respected in the Madden community have seen in THEIR tests. Please do not take this as me trying to discredit your opinion, that is not my intent.

[pokerplaya]

Re: Can Game Speed & Threshold Be Used Universaly

Here's a couple of my videos to demonstrate to you (especially the top one) how players that are FAST can still easily PULL AWAY from the defender. That first video is the best example of it I've seen yet. The final video is also a really fine example. ALL of the videos are on Gamespeed normal, Speed Threshold 100.

<img style="visibility:hidden;width:0px;height:0px;" border=0 width=0 height=0 src="http://counters.gigya.com/wildfire/IMP/CXNID=2000002.0NXC/bT*xJmx*PTEyODI1NTA5MDkyMTgmcHQ9MTI4MjU1MDkxNTExNS ZwPTk1MDcxJmQ9Jmc9MSZvPTc3NTZkZmUyYjg1MDQ3MjViMzA*/MzQyOGRkNzY5YWViJm9mPTA=.gif" /><object width="640" height="360"><param name="wmode" value="transparent" valuetype="data" /><param name="movie" value="http://cdn.www.easports.com/static/194.20.4/flash/mdMediaPlugin/mediaplayer.swf?file=http://cdn.content.easports.com/media2011/madden11/4254736/552A0001_1_FLV_VIDEO_UzN.flv&link=http://www.easports.com/media/play/video/29855351&linkfromdisplay=true&linktarget=_top&imag e=" valuetype="data" /><embed src="http://cdn.www.easports.com/static/194.20.4/flash/mdMediaPlugin/mediaplayer.swf" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="640" height="360" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" flashvars="height=360&width=640&file=http://cdn.content.easports.com/media2011/madden11/4254736/552A0001_1_FLV_VIDEO_UzN.flv&link=http://www.easports.com/media/play/video/29855351&linkfromdisplay=true&linktarget=_top&imag e="></embed></object><div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px;"><a href="http://www.easports.com/" target="_top" shape="rect">EA Sports</a>: <a href="http://www.easports.com/media/play/video/29855351" target="_top" shape="rect">Madden NFL 11 Video Highlight</a></div>

<img style="visibility:hidden;width:0px;height:0px;" border=0 width=0 height=0 src="http://counters.gigya.com/wildfire/IMP/CXNID=2000002.0NXC/bT*xJmx*PTEyODI1NTA5ODU5NTUmcHQ9MTI4MjU1MDk5Nzg3NS ZwPTk1MDcxJmQ9Jmc9MSZvPTc3NTZkZmUyYjg1MDQ3MjViMzA*/MzQyOGRkNzY5YWViJm9mPTA=.gif" /><object width="640" height="360"><param name="wmode" value="transparent" valuetype="data" /><param name="movie" value="http://cdn.www.easports.com/static/194.20.4/flash/mdMediaPlugin/mediaplayer.swf?file=http://cdn.content.easports.com/media2011/madden11/4254736/552A0001_2_FLV_VIDEO_RFU.flv&link=http://www.easports.com/media/play/video/29865243&linkfromdisplay=true&linktarget=_top&imag e=" valuetype="data" /><embed src="http://cdn.www.easports.com/static/194.20.4/flash/mdMediaPlugin/mediaplayer.swf" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="640" height="360" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" flashvars="height=360&width=640&file=http://cdn.content.easports.com/media2011/madden11/4254736/552A0001_2_FLV_VIDEO_RFU.flv&link=http://www.easports.com/media/play/video/29865243&linkfromdisplay=true&linktarget=_top&imag e="></embed></object><div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px;"><a href="http://www.easports.com/" target="_top" shape="rect">EA Sports</a>: <a href="http://www.easports.com/media/play/video/29865243" target="_top" shape="rect">Madden NFL 11 Video Highlight</a></div>

<img style="visibility:hidden;width:0px;height:0px;" border=0 width=0 height=0 src="http://counters.gigya.com/wildfire/IMP/CXNID=2000002.0NXC/bT*xJmx*PTEyODI1NTEwNjY4NDEmcHQ9MTI4MjU1MTA3MDg3OS ZwPTk1MDcxJmQ9Jmc9MSZvPTc3NTZkZmUyYjg1MDQ3MjViMzA*/MzQyOGRkNzY5YWViJm9mPTA=.gif" /><object width="640" height="360"><param name="wmode" value="transparent" valuetype="data" /><param name="movie" value="http://cdn.www.easports.com/static/194.20.4/flash/mdMediaPlugin/mediaplayer.swf?file=http://cdn.content.easports.com/media2011/madden11/4254736/552A0001_3_FLV_VIDEO_FjM.flv&link=http://www.easports.com/media/play/video/29865255&linkfromdisplay=true&linktarget=_top&imag e=" valuetype="data" /><embed src="http://cdn.www.easports.com/static/194.20.4/flash/mdMediaPlugin/mediaplayer.swf" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="640" height="360" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" flashvars="height=360&width=640&file=http://cdn.content.easports.com/media2011/madden11/4254736/552A0001_3_FLV_VIDEO_FjM.flv&link=http://www.easports.com/media/play/video/29865255&linkfromdisplay=true&linktarget=_top&imag e="></embed></object><div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px;"><a href="http://www.easports.com/" target="_top" shape="rect">EA Sports</a>: <a href="http://www.easports.com/media/play/video/29865255" target="_top" shape="rect">Madden NFL 11 Video Highlight</a></div>

[St. Chaos]

Re: Can Game Speed &amp; Threshold Be Used Universaly

No, it says a lower setting provides the greatest differential between players. A higher setting makes there a lesser differential. It doesn't make players run faster than they should (i.e. if they have Desean Jackson as a 4.1 in the game, he runs a 4.1 on normal, but Chris Johnson still runs almost neck and neck with him, whereas Jahvid Best is a step or so slower.) You have to remember, you have some of the quicker OLB's running 4.5's and 4.6's now there is NOT that great a differential between players except on the respective lines (and players like Suh post halfway quality times for men of their size).

This is just my opinion, but I know what I've seen from doing speed tests in practice mode, and also what other posters that are greatly respected in the Madden community have seen in THEIR tests. Please do not take this as me trying to discredit your opinion, that is not my intent.

I'm aware of what it says, however, you spoke from terms of what one would expect from the slider (let's say, as in if there were no explanation of its function). There's no reason to expect that a 100 would yield the result that it does, regardless of its actual function.

And I'm aware of the fact that there is very little speed difference in the NFL (even the slowest of players would be no more than 3-4 seconds behind Chris Johnson if he ran the entire field), however, there is still a "large" difference between certain positions, and with a threshold of 100 that difference is actually too small. Unless of course the "speed" rating were as it should be, and we had players rated on a scale of 1-100, instead of what is presently probably about 40-99 based on in-game ratings.

Ideally, and realistically, the slowest player in the NFL should have a speed of 1, and the fastest a 100. If you wanted to base it off of 40 times, either Chris Johnson or Ike Taylor (to my knowledge anyway) would have 100, and for the sake of example, let's say Josh Hall (who ran a 6.21 at the combine in 2006 according to various google sources) would have a speed of 1.

No spite taken btw... and I've read the tests some people have done. Imo, the tests are rather irrelevant until Madden's speed system is much more accurate than it is now. MUCH more accurate.

Edit: Kinda hard for me to tell but... looks like you're playing Vs. the Bears. If so, like I said, I understand you so easily outrunning such a team. They have an incredibly slow backfield.

[pokerplaya]

Re: Can Game Speed &amp; Threshold Be Used Universaly

I think it's one of those areas (the ratings) where they have to keep everyone in at least the 40's or so at very least in order to create balance in the lineplay, and the lineplay is so good that if that is the case, I'm more than willing to accept that compromise.

I just think it feels *great* with it normal/100. What's more, I feel the players individual acceleration and agility times on both ends of the ball, both with the defender's pursuit angles and how quickly they react (and often the way they should) while leaving me the ability to still make a big play, and vice versa with the CPU on the other side.

It'll always just be my opinion, everyone likes their game a certain way, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. But, I do post sliders to try to help anyone who tries to follow my opinion. I feel, especially with a patch, that we have the best football game we've ever seen, and it can be enjoyed.

[St. Chaos]

Re: Can Game Speed &amp; Threshold Be Used Universaly

I think that's why they do it as well, but that just proves my point about the speed rating being a failure by implementation. They ought to be able to set a floor and ceiling rating to each speed rating that ties directly into a players timed speed. If implemented in such a way, there would be no need to have everyone rated so closely. In fact all the ratings are screwed up... the lowest rating even able to be assigned is 12, when it should actually be 1 (or 0 I suppose in some cases...).

Not gonna get started on the line play though lol. Quite frankly the blocking logic is still pretty terrible, and we've yet to see anything close to a proper implementation of defensive lineplay. On a scale of 1-10, line play in Madden is about a 3 overall. 5 of those missing points is the near complete lack of defensive line blocking logic. 1 point missing for "dumb linemen" who run past attacking defenders as if they're not there, or simply let them waltz by while stuck in some bizarre invisible sand pt. The other point for "dumb blockers" down the field running every direction but toward a defender headed toward the ballcarrier. Ok... maybe I got started a little bit, I can't help myself since I've played lineman on both sides of the ball, as well as halfback and fullback.

But to each his own. Nice having a debate that didn't turn violent like they usually do around here lol.