PENALTY SLIDER SETS ACTUALLY AFFECT GAMEPLAY

[darrenp1518]

First off i want to preface this by saying that to truly be able to test this out you have to set all the penalties to the default setting and adjust each one while leaving the others at 50 so that you can see the affect it has. This is important because certain penalty sliders have a counter effect on each other.

1.) Offsides set to 100 makes defenders shed blocks much more efficiently than at 50 or 25.
2.) Clipping at 33 instead of at 50 GREATLY improves the blocking. (Theres actually a video on youtube titled terrible cpu rushing in cc...and he has the clipping at 55 in combination with offsides at 100...this is disaster for the cpu rushing game as the blockers don't seal anybody and if he sets the clipping to 33 with those same sliders the cpu would dominate in the run game.)
3.) Roughing the kicker at 99 greatly reduces the defenses aggressiveness on tackles and leads to many WTF moments where the db will stop and let a receiver run right by them after they make the catch. With this at 25 you will never see that.
4.) Defensive pass interference at 99 instead of 50 speeds up the receivers ability to get into their routes and therefore slows down the time it takes for the routes to develop for the qb.
5.) kick catch interference is very similar to the roughing the kicker slider. IMO its best to find a penalty combination that leaves this at 50 because i believe both of them negatively affect pursuit angles somehow.
6.) intentional grounding- im not sure what this does yet but i would leave it at 50 to be on the safe side so that you don't get any unwanted affects...especially since it never gets called anyway.

Please guys let me know what you think about this because the penalty sliders can greatly affect the gameplay sliders and i just want to make sure that everyone is aware of this.

[SECElit3]

So in theory, turning off the penalties completely, would provide near perfect game play? I'll play around with this a bit and give you my thoughts later.

[King Gro23]

Re: PENALTY SLIDER SETS ACTUALLY AFFECT GAMEPLAY

In the back of my head I have wondered this for the last few years playing madden but I haven't ever tested it enough and knew what to look for when testing so I kinda just threw the idea in the "Sounds cool but won't try" pile.

I've wondered if/when we crank up Pass interference if that makes the AI aware that if they get physical or contact WR they will act like it's nothing (reason we see bumps/sliding and what not, but minimal interaction in order to avoid a penalty. So they will cheat the system to avoid penalties and will be less aggressive in the air.

Clipping I noticed when it is too high the routes players take to block are hindered greatly. It's so evident on Kick-offs and Punt returns, ever notice your blockers when your running across the field or at an angle and they have a guy they could of blocked by they let them pass and they run on their back hip (So as the runner you think oh cutback and they will get smash by blocker once they turn shoulders and what not) Wrong blockers will push them in the back for a obvious dumb clip, or they we let them switch direction and cutback with you and then hold them. The infamous holding penalty happens when you change direction to extremity.

Offsides too high makes the line flinch but they never truly ever get fooled and jump offside only if you hike the ball while they are jump snap flinching & in neutral zone

Now I wonder if assuming the OP statement is true and accurate if there is a way to tune gameplay to become better and more fundamental, and still recieve flags for the games violations. I hate the lack of penalties already as is.. Not to start any problems but It was funny in anticipation for Madden 13 over the summer I would play All-Pro Football 2k8 (with updated NFL rosters) & NFL 2k5 with updated rosters and in 1 game of each I seen 11 different types of penalties I never see in madden

- Inelligble man downfield
- Throw pass the LOS
- Offensive & defensive pass interference
- Illegal touching
- Intentional grounding
- Offsetting penalties ;penalties on both teams
-Holding in the endzone
- 2 penalties on same team
- Defensive holding
-Illegal hands to face

I seen all of those penalties within a 3 game span playing APF 2k8 & NFL 2k5


I wish madden would have effective and true penalties like 2K sports could implement it opens up everything and just adds that much more realism. & The proof in the pudding was always shown in replays user control & game que'd it was awesome!
Just another madden script waiting to be debunked

[darrenp1518]

Re: PENALTY SLIDER SETS ACTUALLY AFFECT GAMEPLAY

So in theory, turning off the penalties completely, would provide near perfect game play? I'll play around with this a bit and give you my thoughts later.

No i dont think so because certain penalty adjustments enhance the gameplay and if you turn penalties off the affect would probably be the same as the default 50 setting...But ya tell me what you think because im definitely seeing an impact on gameplay

[darrenp1518]

Re: PENALTY SLIDER SETS ACTUALLY AFFECT GAMEPLAY

Ya i definitely agree with you about how penalties aren't called effectively in madden 13 but im not sure that will ever be addressed. But im glad you saw what i saw with the clipping. Because if clipping is set at 55 you wont see any crack back blocks like the one on sean lee last sunday. But if you set it to 33 you will see blockers going out of there way to come back and throw blocks. But when it comes to offsides im not really able to get the defense to go offsides either but the dline plays with alot of aggression when the penalty slider is at 100 and maybe they are just plain quicker and faster. But if you leave all the penalty sliders at default and play a few plays. Then go back and put offsides to 100 you will notice how the dline explodes off the ball.

In the back of my head I have wondered this for the last few years playing madden but I haven't ever tested it enough and knew what to look for when testing so I kinda just threw the idea in the "Sounds cool but won't try" pile.

I've wondered if/when we crank up Pass interference if that makes the AI aware that if they get physical or contact WR they will act like it's nothing (reason we see bumps/sliding and what not, but minimal interaction in order to avoid a penalty. So they will cheat the system to avoid penalties and will be less aggressive in the air.

Clipping I noticed when it is too high the routes players take to block are hindered greatly. It's so evident on Kick-offs and Punt returns, ever notice your blockers when your running across the field or at an angle and they have a guy they could of blocked by they let them pass and they run on their back hip (So as the runner you think oh cutback and they will get smash by blocker once they turn shoulders and what not) Wrong blockers will push them in the back for a obvious dumb clip, or they we let them switch direction and cutback with you and then hold them. The infamous holding penalty happens when you change direction to extremity.

Offsides too high makes the line flinch but they never truly ever get fooled and jump offside only if you hike the ball while they are jump snap flinching & in neutral zone

Now I wonder if assuming the OP statement is true and accurate if there is a way to tune gameplay to become better and more fundamental, and still recieve flags for the games violations. I hate the lack of penalties already as is.. Not to start any problems but It was funny in anticipation for Madden 13 over the summer I would play All-Pro Football 2k8 (with updated NFL rosters) & NFL 2k5 with updated rosters and in 1 game of each I seen 11 different types of penalties I never see in madden

- Inelligble man downfield
- Throw pass the LOS
- Offensive & defensive pass interference
- Illegal touching
- Intentional grounding
- Offsetting penalties ;penalties on both teams
-Holding in the endzone
- 2 penalties on same team
- Defensive holding
-Illegal hands to face

I seen all of those penalties within a 3 game span playing APF 2k8 & NFL 2k5


I wish madden would have effective and true penalties like 2K sports could implement it opens up everything and just adds that much more realism. & The proof in the pudding was always shown in replays user control & game que'd it was awesome!
Just another madden script waiting to be debunked

[hanzsomehanz]

Re: PENALTY SLIDER SETS ACTUALLY AFFECT GAMEPLAY

Absolutely! I say that in response to the title of the thread. Great work man on providing this evidence - this will minimize the amount of tweaking we do directly with the skill sliders!

[footballfan41]

Re: PENALTY SLIDER SETS ACTUALLY AFFECT GAMEPLAY

So where are u saying to set all the sliders in that group at??? 50???

[hanzsomehanz]

Re: PENALTY SLIDER SETS ACTUALLY AFFECT GAMEPLAY

So where are u saying to set all the sliders in that group at??? 50???

He's saying to default Everything and work with the penalty sliders alone and see the effect they produce! C'mon man.. it was the first thing he said..

First off i want to preface this by saying that to truly be able to test this out you have to set all the penalties to the default setting and adjust each one while leaving the others at 50 so that you can see the affect it has. This is important because certain penalty sliders have a counter effect on each other.

He included some initial findings and now you and others can lab the experience. Start a clean slate and see how much Gameplay improvements you get by altering the Penalties alone.

Getting the penalties right will keep the game skill sets as close to default as possible and save a lot of tax time on the skill set modifications.

It's a revelation for myself. I never considered taking down a penalty slider unless I saw it was being exploited. He's opened our eyes. It's a very meaningful thread, mate.

[SECElit3]

Re: PENALTY SLIDER SETS ACTUALLY AFFECT GAMEPLAY

I played around with this a bit this morning. It seemed like it was easier to run with the clipping slider at 33, which might bare some truth to this theory.

However, at this point, I just don't know. I would love to believe that the issues with the game can be fixed with simple slider adjustments. Unfortunately, I think you and I know that it is reaching. We are trying to believe one click of a slider or some easy solution is only seconds away from being discovered.

It is not.. The solution to these issues lies deeper than that. The solutions are buried within lines and lines of written, rewritten, and patched code. I honestly don't think we are going to get solutions at this point, because I don't think EA knows how to fix them. Either that, it is not cost effective, or it could even be that they don't care.

Penalty sliders haven't worked properly for years in either NCAA or Madden. They simply barely work or do not work at all.

While some things have gotten better, others have gotten worse. I honestly do believe there is little to no hope in this cycle to get the perfect football game, from EA, we've been waiting year after year for. I feel sorry for guys like Cam, who have been recruited to clean up after this huge mess the previous teams left.

This game is doomed from the foundation. The code to get it right, will have to be built from the ground up. Thankfully, we only have a few years left in this cycle.

[DiceMan]

Re: PENALTY SLIDER SETS ACTUALLY AFFECT GAMEPLAY

This has been the case in Madden for a few years....for instance if you turn up facemask, you'll @ least see more animations where the defender will reach for the facemask. Wierd stuff.

[hanzsomehanz]

Re: PENALTY SLIDER SETS ACTUALLY AFFECT GAMEPLAY

I played around with this a bit this morning. It seemed like it was easier to run with the clipping slider at 33, which might bare some truth to this theory.

However, at this point, I just don't know. I would love to believe that the issues with the game can be fixed with simple slider adjustments. Unfortunately, I think you and I know that it is reaching. We are trying to believe one click of a slider or some easy solution is only seconds away from being discovered.

It is not.. The solution to these issues lies deeper than that. The solutions are buried within lines and lines of written, rewritten, and patched code. I honestly don't think we are going to get solutions at this point, because I don't think EA knows how to fix them. Either that, it is not cost effective, or it could even be that they don't care.

Penalty sliders haven't worked properly for years in either NCAA or Madden. They simply barely work or do not work at all.

While some things have gotten better, others have gotten worse. I honestly do believe there is little to no hope in this cycle to get the perfect football game, from EA, we've been waiting year after year for. I feel sorry for guys like Cam, who have been recruited to clean up after this huge mess the previous teams left.

This game is doomed from the foundation. The code to get it right, will have to be built from the ground up. Thankfully, we only have a few years left in this cycle.

What happen to your dogged determination? Live up to the title SEC! The skill set changes will move in harmony with the new penalty effects that we witness.

It really is true, turn it upside down and see the inverse effect. Now we will see what drops off and what sticks and it will make it much more intrinsic to work with the skill-sets.

More and more, I realize their is so much potential to squeeze out of this year's game. Everyone has this passionate thirst to learn more, share more, and do more to get the best out of this game.

Go forth and conquer the game!

[Hades71]

Re: PENALTY SLIDER SETS ACTUALLY AFFECT GAMEPLAY

In the back of my head I have wondered this for the last few years playing madden but I haven't ever tested it enough and knew what to look for when testing so I kinda just threw the idea in the "Sounds cool but won't try" pile.

I've wondered if/when we crank up Pass interference if that makes the AI aware that if they get physical or contact WR they will act like it's nothing (reason we see bumps/sliding and what not, but minimal interaction in order to avoid a penalty. So they will cheat the system to avoid penalties and will be less aggressive in the air.

Clipping I noticed when it is too high the routes players take to block are hindered greatly. It's so evident on Kick-offs and Punt returns, ever notice your blockers when your running across the field or at an angle and they have a guy they could of blocked by they let them pass and they run on their back hip (So as the runner you think oh cutback and they will get smash by blocker once they turn shoulders and what not) Wrong blockers will push them in the back for a obvious dumb clip, or they we let them switch direction and cutback with you and then hold them. The infamous holding penalty happens when you change direction to extremity.

Offsides too high makes the line flinch but they never truly ever get fooled and jump offside only if you hike the ball while they are jump snap flinching & in neutral zone

Now I wonder if assuming the OP statement is true and accurate if there is a way to tune gameplay to become better and more fundamental, and still recieve flags for the games violations. I hate the lack of penalties already as is.. Not to start any problems but It was funny in anticipation for Madden 13 over the summer I would play All-Pro Football 2k8 (with updated NFL rosters) & NFL 2k5 with updated rosters and in 1 game of each I seen 11 different types of penalties I never see in madden

- Inelligble man downfield
- Throw pass the LOS
- Offensive & defensive pass interference
- Illegal touching
- Intentional grounding
- Offsetting penalties ;penalties on both teams
-Holding in the endzone
- 2 penalties on same team
- Defensive holding
-Illegal hands to face

I seen all of those penalties within a 3 game span playing APF 2k8 & NFL 2k5


I wish madden would have effective and true penalties like 2K sports could implement it opens up everything and just adds that much more realism. & The proof in the pudding was always shown in replays user control & game que'd it was awesome!
Just another madden script waiting to be debunked

In madden 13 ive seen illegal forward pass on me and the cpu for being past the LOS. Also illegal touching on a deep pass where the WR had a step out of bounds on his deep route a couple of times. Also i got an unnecessary roughness when i scrambled my QB for eight yards and got hit while already out of bounds. Penalties deffinately going in a good direction, all those calls surprised the heck out of me.
I like this thread and it makes sense penalties have an impact on the AI. After all AI is only scripted situational parameters in any kind of game and the penalties being set high or low would deffinately have to effect AI to have any effect at all.

[SECElit3]

Re: PENALTY SLIDER SETS ACTUALLY AFFECT GAMEPLAY

What happen to your dogged determination? Live up to the title SEC! The skill set changes will move in harmony with the new penalty effects that we witness.

It really is true, turn it upside down and see the inverse effect. Now we will see what drops off and what sticks and it will make it much more intrinsic to work with the skill-sets.

More and more, I realize their is so much potential to squeeze out of this year's game. Everyone has this passionate thirst to learn more, share more, and do more to get the best out of this game.

Go forth and conquer the game!

Ha Ha... It went "out the window" with my slider set rating. No but seriously, I just don't see anything consistent with Madden 13. It is pretty difficult to accurately determine what effects each of these settings has on the game when there is a lack of consistency from any of them.

[darrenp1518]

Re: PENALTY SLIDER SETS ACTUALLY AFFECT GAMEPLAY

I just played in CONNECTED CAREERS MODE with these penalty and game slider sets and the cpu ran all over my defense!

PENALTIES:

Offside-100
False Start-1
Holding-55
Face Mask-55
OPI-25
DPI-99
PCI-50
Clipping-35
Intentional Grounding-50
Roughing the Passer-54
Roughing the Kicker-25

(Slow) speed setting
Speed Threshold-100
Fatigue-70

And all the game sliders were set to all pro(default 50) except:

QB Acc-80
WR catch-24
For both the user and cpu


Just a quick slider set to test it on.

[hanzsomehanz]

Re: PENALTY SLIDER SETS ACTUALLY AFFECT GAMEPLAY

"I see the burst" there is a definite burst in the run game on both sides but the performance difference is drastic for the PC. I tried this with All-Pro and All-Madden.

It was fun labbing the penalties. I eventually chopped them all in half to 25 and saw how it played out on All-Pro and All-Madden. I then further chopped up the game speed and speed threshold.

It is telling how much the penalties reveal. It seems to be a percent that they use in the code to determine the penalty frequencies.

I'm going to end up using the penalty sliders based on how often they occur in a game on average - weigh them. I'll then use the skill set sliders to offset the penalties so that penalities do get called.

I can live without seeing certain penalties so I won't be too microscopic on the numbers.


*I discovered by chance during the testing that turning the accel clock off makes the computer offense play more methodically. I'm going to keep it off here on out. More of these subtleties that reap good dividends will pay off in the long run.