Question regarding game momentum.

**Ian_Cummings** · 02-22-2009, 10:52 AM

Re: Question regarding game momentum.

Nope...not in Madden. For 09 they did add a boost to the CPU (they bumped them up a skill level under the hood) in rivalry and playoff/Super Bowl games...not sure if anyone noticed or knew that. I'm not sure I'm too crazy about it...what do you guys think?

We talked about a momentum type of thing, but then that doesn't really fit with our new realistic mantra too well because hot/cold streaks and meters on the screen and all those things aren't 'sim'. My perspective was that you could make the argument that you do see that stuff on Sundays, but then in order to make the feature non-confusing and non-frustrating, you need to implement visual feedback to the user that actually takes away from the sim experience.

**dannydufflebags** · 02-22-2009, 11:36 AM

Re: Question regarding game momentum.

Originally posted by Ian_Cummings_EA

Nope...not in Madden. For 09 they did add a boost to the CPU (they bumped them up a skill level under the hood) in rivalry and playoff/Super Bowl games...not sure if anyone noticed or knew that. I'm not sure I'm too crazy about it...what do you guys think?

We talked about a momentum type of thing, but then that doesn't really fit with our new realistic mantra too well because hot/cold streaks and meters on the screen and all those things aren't 'sim'. My perspective was that you could make the argument that you do see that stuff on Sundays, but then in order to make the feature non-confusing and non-frustrating, you need to implement visual feedback to the user that actually takes away from the sim experience.

Hmmm, I am kinda torn on this idea. I would like to see Home-field advantage, and rivalry's etc play a part. Not only in franchise (I dont use) , but in online play as well. I am a member of a ongoing 32 team league, and would love to see this stuff implemented, and be a factor. But, it couldn't have to much of a factor on the outcome. It's a touchy subject, but like any feature, done right, and not exaggerated, could be great. I think meters would be bad, but things like crowd noise to let you know your momentum, or player reactions on the field to let you know if a player is "hot", would be quite cool. Again, if not overblown.
I want to win by strategy first, stick skills and ratings second, and anything else third.

**Hotlanta** · 02-22-2009, 11:44 AM

Re: Question regarding game momentum.

<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name="ProgId" content="Word.Document"><meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 12"><meta name="Originator" content="Microsoft Word 12"><link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CKEDEEM%7E1%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5 Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><link rel="themeData" href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CKEDEEM%7E1%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5 Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_themedata.thmx"><link rel="colorSchemeMapping" href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CKEDEEM%7E1%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5 Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_colorschememapping.xml"> <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:TrackMoves/> <w:TrackFormatting/> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w

oNotPromoteQF/> <w:LidThemeOther>EN-CA</w:LidThemeOther> <w:LidThemeAsian>X-NONE</w:LidThemeAsian> <w:LidThemeComplexScript>X-NONE</w:LidThemeComplexScript> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w

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ontVertAlignInTxbx/> <w:Word11KerningPairs/> <w:CachedColBalance/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> <m:mathPr> <m:mathFont m:val="Cambria Math"/> <m:brkBin m:val="before"/> <m:brkBinSub m:val="--"/> <m:smallFrac m:val="off"/> <m:dispDef/> <m:lMargin m:val="0"/> <m:rMargin m:val="0"/> <m:defJc m:val="centerGroup"/> <m:wrapIndent m:val="1440"/> <m:intLim m:val="subSup"/> <m:naryLim m:val="undOvr"/> </m:mathPr></w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><style>  </style> If we had momentum added with things such as meters, icons, etc. it would help if there was an option to remove it if the user sees fit. You can't go wrong with options IMO.

There will always be those people that like seeing stuff such as weapons, in-game icons, and whatever other visuals give them an idea on what can help, as well as people that want their game to be clean, basic, well-played football.

For those in-between, if they want to see what going on with their players from time to time, they can just press start click on the option, and head back in-game.

Either way you look at it, momentum has its role in all sports including football. If it gets added or not doesn't really matter to me at this point since I'm the person just wants to see gameplay hit the point where it surpasses all other football games on the market.

**splff3000** · 02-22-2009, 11:46 AM

Re: Question regarding game momentum.

Originally posted by Ian_Cummings_EA

Nope...not in Madden. For 09 they did add a boost to the CPU (they bumped them up a skill level under the hood) in rivalry and playoff/Super Bowl games...not sure if anyone noticed or knew that. I'm not sure I'm too crazy about it...what do you guys think?

We talked about a momentum type of thing, but then that doesn't really fit with our new realistic mantra too well because hot/cold streaks and meters on the screen and all those things aren't 'sim'. My perspective was that you could make the argument that you do see that stuff on Sundays, but then in order to make the feature non-confusing and non-frustrating, you need to implement visual feedback to the user that actually takes away from the sim experience.

I actually like the idea of rivalry and playoff/superbowl games being harder. That's pretty sim to me. How many times does a 2-10 team upset a 9-3 rival team? It happens quite a bit....at least once a year. How many times have you heard the saying "throw out the records when these 2 teams play"? To me that means those games should be harder. I would even take it a step farther and have the superbowl game harder than the others. My theory is that the Superbowl should be the hardest game you play.

I also don't think we need hot/cold streaks or meters either, but I DO think there should be some kind momentum and some kind of homefield advantage. Maybe a cheering crowd can cause a visiting O-lineman with low awareness to false start more often or occasionally the QB would have to audible 2 or 3 times before the audible goes through because the crowd is so loud.

Also, while I'm mentioning homefield advantage, I think home stadiums and weather should have a more dynamic affect on attributes. Example: When TB goes to Lambeau Field in the winter, the weather effects (snow) should affect their team more than the Packers or when teams play in domes the game should feel a little faster because they're playing on turf as opposed to natural grass. Little things like this go a long way.

**krc1130** · 02-22-2009, 11:57 AM

Re: Question regarding game momentum.

Originally posted by splff3000

I actually like the idea of rivalry and playoff/superbowl games being harder. That's pretty sim to me. How many times does a 2-10 team upset a 9-3 rival team? It happens quite a bit....at least once a year. How many times have you heard the saying "throw out the records when these 2 teams play"? To me that means those games should be harder. I would even take it a step farther and have the superbowl game harder than the others. My theory is that the Superbowl should be the hardest game you play.

I also don't think we need hot/cold streaks or meters either, but I DO think there should be some kind momentum and some kind of homefield advantage. Maybe a cheering crowd can cause a visiting O-lineman with low awareness to false start more often or occasionally the QB would have to audible 2 or 3 times before the audible goes through because the crowd is so loud.

Also, while I'm mentioning homefield advantage, I think home stadiums and weather should have a more dynamic affect on attributes. Example: When TB goes to Lambeau Field in the winter, the weather effects (snow) should affect their team more than the Packers or when teams play in domes the game should feel a little faster because they're playing on turf as opposed to natural grass. Little things like this go a long way.

I think having hot and cold streaks would be a great idea. Look at the Giants in 2007, they got on a hot-streak and won the super bowl. Or the Bucs this year fell apart and were on a cold streak.

I also think that players should go thru streaks as well. Like in my previous example, Eli got hot late in the season and in the playoffs and had a tremendous game-winning drive.

EDIT: Oh but not in a meter, just like maybe in a newspaper or there could be like a little icon by the team when your selecting your game to play that shows if the team is on any kind of streak.

**bison160** · 02-22-2009, 12:26 PM

Re: Question regarding game momentum.

I think some sort of Home field advantage and momentum needs to be in the game. BUT!!!, Yes, there is a "but"....ONLY after the game plays realisticly when there is no advantage applied. So until I can play a full game that actually feels like a realistic NFL representation, Id rather have no time spent figuring out how to make one team "cheat" the other under the hood.

However, once that is achieved, I think it is certainly needed. Sans the icons or meters though. I think the momentum can really be brought to life through the crowd noise, commentator's can say things like, "This team is really working well together right now."

I really wish they would do something along the lines of the screen shaking when crowd is really into it. Something that always bugged me about this though was that when you snapped the ball it stopped? Why? The crowd doesnt stop cheering when you snap the ball.

**splff3000** · 02-22-2009, 12:42 PM

Re: Question regarding game momentum.

Originally posted by bison160

I think some sort of Home field advantage and momentum needs to be in the game. BUT!!!, Yes, there is a "but"....ONLY after the game plays realisticly when there is no advantage applied. So until I can play a full game that actually feels like a realistic NFL representation, Id rather have no time spent figuring out how to make one team "cheat" the other under the hood.

However, once that is achieved, I think it is certainly needed. Sans the icons or meters though. I think the momentum can really be brought to life through the crowd noise, commentator's can say things like, "This team is really working well together right now."

I really wish they would do something along the lines of the screen shaking when crowd is really into it. Something that always bugged me about this though was that when you snapped the ball it stopped? Why? The crowd doesnt stop cheering when you snap the ball.

And, as always, you should be able to turn this stuff off. I may like the screen shaking, but the next guy may not.

**TheCreep** · 02-22-2009, 01:22 PM

Re: Question regarding game momentum.

As far as a player being on a hot streak, you guys are getting the wrong idea talking about meters and such. The way its implemented in NCAA, you only will know if your player is hot when you hold the trigger before the play where it shows assignments, thats when you see the red circle after you press the analog control down. There are no overt visual clues.:wink: Thanks for the responses though.

**TheWatcher** · 02-22-2009, 01:32 PM

Re: Question regarding game momentum.

Originally posted by dannydufflebags

I think meters would be bad, but things like crowd noise to let you know your momentum, or player reactions on the field to let you know if a player is "hot", would be quite cool. Again, if not overblown.

Exactly. On TV, we're able to see visually and hear audibly where the momentum is swinging and that's the way it should be in the game. Head Coach had a lot of the right ideas by having coaches reactions to situations. In 2K5, when you were putting a beatdown on a team, the cutscenes made it obvious who was in command. I don't want an emotion selector on-screen like Head Coach has, but cutscenes and sounds should be communicating to us where the momentum is. No meters.

An on/off for meters wouldn't solve the issue here like it would with lots of others things in the game, because then you'd be pushing aside the necessary visual and audio indications of momentum which is true-to-life, and relying completely on a meter which is arcade.

**Glorious Arc** · 02-22-2009, 02:29 PM

Re: Question regarding game momentum.

I kinda liked NCAA's setup with home field advantage. If i took a QB with 60 awareness into the swamp he wasnt able to see his players routes/icons before the play. It made awareness matter a little bit but otherwise QB awareness is almost pointless.

I liked to see a screen shake and the crowd roar when they get pumped up. Maybe there should be team chants. i went to the Jags game vs the browns and every time the jags got a first down the entire crowd stood up and chanted "move those chains" it was kinda stupid BUT it was their thing. Like everyone has been saying there should be an opition if its there to turn it off though to please everyone

**Vikes1** · 02-22-2009, 02:41 PM

Re: Question regarding game momentum.

First off I'd say...if a majority of people want things like this added to Madden, I'm ok with it...as long as it's optional.

I don't deny things like momentum and home field advantage to a point are apart of the NFL. But in my opinion features like this are better suited for the college game. [NCAA] A 19 year old is much more likely to be effected by this kind of thing, than a 29 year old professional.

In all fairness I should admit I have a bias view on this. To me, the more of this kind of thing that was added to the NCAA game....the worst it got. The more arcade-like it seemed.

**TheWatcher** · 02-22-2009, 02:51 PM

Re: Question regarding game momentum.

Originally posted by Vikes1

In all fairness I should admit I have a bias view on this. To me, the more of this kind of thing that was added to the NCAA game....the worst it got. The more arcade-like it seemed.

And the reason we feel like that is because it doesn't seriously reproduce the sport in the way we see it on TV. Take for example that ridiculous sunbeam explosion that happened in NCAA 08 when a player got on a big hot streak. It was a terrible sight to have seen that. I didn't know if I was playing football or Street Fighter II.

The two best presented football games of the last two generations (2K5 and Head Coach 09) communicated momentum through visual reaction and audible reaction using cutscenes and post-play. They just need to follow that blueprint.

**splff3000** · 02-22-2009, 02:58 PM

Re: Question regarding game momentum.

Originally posted by Vikes1

First off I'd say...if a majority of people want things like this added to Madden, I'm ok with it...as long as it's optional.

I don't deny things like momentum and home field advantage to a point are apart of the NFL. But in my opinion features like this are better suited for the college game. [NCAA] A 19 year old is much more likely to be effected by this kind of thing, than a 29 year old professional.

In all fairness I should admit I have a bias view on this. To me, the more of this kind of thing that was added to the NCAA game....the worst it got. The more arcade-like it seemed.

You don't like homefield advantage? Whaaaat!!? I will agree that there is some nonsense in the college game, but homefield advantage is the shiznit! Imagine this for Madden: You just came off of a humungous road victory over the colts in the playoffs (don't know if your team is in the AFC, but work with me). It was a hard fought game because you had to deal with the team AND the crowd. Guess what's next..........A snowy showdown at Foxboro. You know you're gonna have to deal with the team, the elements, and the crowd. Better get your gameface on...........You're gonna need it.

**NYyankz225** · 02-22-2009, 03:14 PM

Re: Question regarding game momentum.

I assumed since the commentators had rivalry specific commentary that the game somehow adjusted momentum or 'intensity' for those games at least. If it does then that's how you make these changes of momentum clearly understandable. Make comments about it. "It seems like this team is running on all cylinders right now," or "This team is really on a roll," etc, etc. I'm sure your writers can think of something better than that.

But as long as you make the momentum subtle I don't see how it can hurt. In this case less is more. You don't always necessarily have to see a clear effect after you implement a change...that leads to them being overdone and THATS what ruins "sim football". It'd actually be better if you implemented it and it wasn't overtly noticeable. It should just become part of the game.

That should be your goal when you add any of your features. Don't let the features become the focus, make the way that it improves the game be the focus if you know what I mean. That's the problem that Madden had in the past.

Sort of an aside but that's the problem with a lot of rock groups these days. Everyone is pushing for louder and not realizing the effect it has on the tone of the music (and the sound quality itself...most recently mastered CDs sound like crap). Being louder for loudness' sake doesn't help your band. Be loud for a reason, and not all the time. Again...in your case don't let a new feature become the focal point of your development...reign it back in and let it become flush with the rest of the package.

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