Madden 09 - 10 unpredictability

[thudias]

I just read Bill Abner's review of the Show and I had a question for all you Madden fans out there.

Was Madden 09 unpredictable enough for you? I personally agree with Bill that for a sports game to have longevity there needs to be an aspect that sometimes things are out of your control..missed snaps, receivers run the wrong routes, bad Qb decisions, fumbles etc..

Looking forward to Madden 10 is there anything you could think of that could use more unpredictability or was the 09 model good enough?

My one request is that this does not turn into a wish list and that we stay focused on this particular topic.

[dman1976]

Re: Madden 09 - 10 unpredictability

DB stubbling on coverages leaving WR wide open or vice versa, QB overthrows. But, randomness on both sides not use a bunch of fumbles or int for users.

[salbowski]

Re: Madden 09 - 10 unpredictability

ian stated in his last blog that a wr with poor route running will slip in the rain now... hopefully the same will be applicable for dbacks... not too sure what rating will be required for dbacks to fall though?
any ideas?? maybe man coverage or agility.

this will bring some unpredictability to the gameplay.

[kmart2180]

Re: Madden 09 - 10 unpredictability

The problem with coding stuff like this is how often does it happen? Also if it happens in a crucial point in a game wouldnt it be something more to complain about then to appreciate?

I think its a tough thing to add to the game without it feeling cheesy. If it was I'd not want to see it every game sorta like that Super Bowl catch in Madden 09. Its something that should only happen out of the Blue maybe 1 every 10-15 games. Of course in the bad weather conditions wouldnt mind seeing it a bit more.

[Vikes1]

Re: Madden 09 - 10 unpredictability

Excellent topic.

One of my problems with Madden '09' is it's predictability.

At least in my experience...going into each franchise game, you can bet on a few things that will surely happen.

1. Robo QB.
2. Weak cpu run game.
3. Rubber band.. comeback AI.
4. Weak User team pass rush.

In franchise mode anyway...yeah, it would be welcome to have messed up snaps, players that have unexpected good/bad games. Dynamic weather changes that really affect the game play. [a storm moves in during game.] The game play at this point does seem kind of robotic, lacking the element of surprise.

[kcarr]

Re: Madden 09 - 10 unpredictability

The problem with coding stuff like this is how often does it happen? Also if it happens in a crucial point in a game wouldnt it be something more to complain about then to appreciate?

I think its a tough thing to add to the game without it feeling cheesy. If it was I'd not want to see it every game sorta like that Super Bowl catch in Madden 09. Its something that should only happen out of the Blue maybe 1 every 10-15 games. Of course in the bad weather conditions wouldnt mind seeing it a bit more.

The key with these things and with unpredictability adding to the longevity of the game is that these things don't happen all the time.

APF 2k8 did this pretty well. If you go onto that games forum on this site you see a fair share of people discussing seeing animations for the first time after months of playing the game. They didn't have all these unpredictable things that I would like to see added but with the things that they had they did a good job of making things that happen a lot actually happen a lot and things that should be rare actually be rare.

[thudias]

Re: Madden 09 - 10 unpredictability

The problem with coding stuff like this is how often does it happen? Also if it happens in a crucial point in a game wouldnt it be something more to complain about then to appreciate?

I think its a tough thing to add to the game without it feeling cheesy. If it was I'd not want to see it every game sorta like that Super Bowl catch in Madden 09. Its something that should only happen out of the Blue maybe 1 every 10-15 games. Of course in the bad weather conditions wouldn't mind seeing it a bit more.

It has to be random...Maybe it happens in back to back games and then doesn't happen again for the rest of the season. As far as being in a crucial point in the game well..that is usually when stuff happens again if it is truly random we can not pick the spots where it will or won't happen. the defeats the point of randomness.


Boy..I said random too many times just then.

[kcarr]

Re: Madden 09 - 10 unpredictability

It has to be random...Maybe it happens in back to back games and then doesn't happen again for the rest of the season. As far as being in a crucial point in the game well..that is usually when stuff happens again if it is truly random we can not pick the spots where it will or won't happen. the defeats the point of randomness.


Boy..I said random too many times just then.

You did say random quite a bit but really randomness is key to unpredictability. If it was not random and only fell at certain points then it will be rather predictable and who wants predictable unpredictability anyway.

[dman1976]

Re: Madden 09 - 10 unpredictability

Don't get me wrong, I'm a 'boys fan - but case in point - Romo's fumbled snap - ever see something like that in madden?

[Spartan_1]

Re: Madden 09 - 10 unpredictability

I would like to see more randomness in catches. With some truly amazing OMG DID U SEE THAT CATCH. From great leaps to bad throws that the receiver bends backwards to get.

I don't want to get to far into the wish list but I really do think that almost all catches from the GREAT receivers should have seperate catch animations to distinguish them from the good/average receivers, unless they are just wide open.

More randomeness in Penalties. I want to see holding that makes sense and get called and I want to also see a defensive lineman crying to an official for not calling an obvious hold.

Rivalry games should have pushing and fighting being broken up with occasional offsetting penalties. When a good team is losing or barely beating a bad team, same type of thing happens.

I really think there needs to be more randomness in the throwing abilities of guys that are being pressured. Some guys can actually step up and take a hit and still throw a great pass. Other guys do make less impressive throws but not every one of them. In other words I want to hear from the announcer that "he felt the pressure and tried to get rid of it in a hurry and couldn't get everything on it" And also " He makes a perfect throw and he knew he was about to get nailed- thats one tough sob. " AKA Jeff Garcia.

[Moostache]

Re: Madden 09 - 10 unpredictability

More randomeness in Penalties. I want to see holding that makes sense and get called and I want to also see a defensive lineman crying to an official for not calling an obvious hold.

This is something that I have been pleading for in the game for years now...using realistic penalties to force players to play realistic football. Many of the things that happen online and head-to-head are used specifically because they work - they have nothing whatsoever with strategy or rational football logic, they just work so they get used.

This is where I have maintained for years that aggressive use of the rulebook and having penalties called in the game according to the actions of the players could greatly clean up the experience and limit the exploitation of the AI.

Example...a player decides that bump and run with a blitz on every play is an acceptable strategy. In addition to exhausting his DBs in the first half, this should be greeted with a rise in defensive holding, illegal contact and defensive PI calls in direct proportion to the percentage of plays that BnR is used in a possession, a drive, a quarter and the game.

Example #2...a player continues to use the roll-out as a default move for passing (and not the *******es who roll themselves directly into CB blitzes over and over until they quit, but the ones who know how to use the game against itself to wait until a specific animation or DE-OT interaction is triggered and THEN roll out and seemingly never get caught or have a bad throw)...the more this happens the more likely it is that an OT would bet caught holding or a OG would wander downfield illegally or a chop block would occur...in other words, YES...scrambling QBs are a part of the game but they are NEVER the entire gameplan...even Vick at his highest totals in a season never averaged more than 65 yards a game!

In Madden, the risk is non-existant for most scrambling if done correctly and that alone has been a constant for years. EA has addressed it a little bit more each year (short of using the VC system of QB control that made it impossible to pass off of certain moves), but the easier and more realistic answer is not more restrictions on the player's movements, just more risk-reward in the DECISION to use such tactics excessively or consistently.

I still believe that almost everything done in the game that does not involve crazy physics or animation clipping could be partly or fully addressed by simply making the game enforce the rules of football in the videogame football titles...of course, then you would also have people complaining that the CPU is clairevoyant and impossible to do anything against or the stick-jockeys would be complaining that they could no longer use "skills" to "make plays" (ie. exploit the game by negating the player ratings via manual movements)...its a trade-off that I would be willing to play test!

[gogocutler06]

Re: Madden 09 - 10 unpredictability

I would like to see more randomness in catches. With some truly amazing OMG DID U SEE THAT CATCH. From great leaps to bad throws that the receiver bends backwards to get.

I don't want to get to far into the wish list but I really do think that almost all catches from the GREAT receivers should have seperate catch animations to distinguish them from the good/average receivers, unless they are just wide open.

More randomeness in Penalties. I want to see holding that makes sense and get called and I want to also see a defensive lineman crying to an official for not calling an obvious hold.

Rivalry games should have pushing and fighting being broken up with occasional offsetting penalties. When a good team is losing or barely beating a bad team, same type of thing happens.

I really think there needs to be more randomness in the throwing abilities of guys that are being pressured. Some guys can actually step up and take a hit and still throw a great pass. Other guys do make less impressive throws but not every one of them. In other words I want to hear from the announcer that "he felt the pressure and tried to get rid of it in a hurry and couldn't get everything on it" And also " He makes a perfect throw and he knew he was about to get nailed- thats one tough sob. " AKA Jeff Garcia.

I would LOVE simply LOVE to actually see the hold... everything about the holding penalty is completely noticable in a real game... yet in madden if you watch a replay it has nothing to do with a hold... seems like more of a random call...
Another thing nice would be the ability of a DB to realize if they are going to get burned on a slant, curl, or streak and simply pull the WR to the ground, or grab a hold of them for a second or two... enough to legitmately call a hold and actually be able to observe this hold.

Good ideas man

[jjdogjjdog5162]

Re: Madden 09 - 10 unpredictability

It would be neat to have some unpredictability in the game. I think one of the reasons i still play APF2k8 is the fact i keep seeing new animations and situations occur to this day. I have yet to have a snap go over my punters head(and i've played a ton of games) but i've had my guys pull hamstrings, slip in the rain, over throw wide open recievers(montana). It seems different all the time. It would be nice for madden to have stuff like this. Granted, it takes control away from the user(which can frustrate some people) but it would make the game more interesting if you didnt know for certain that your pass was going to be perfect to your wide open reciever, or that your qb's footing was going to be perfect in difficult weather. But, i just want the gameplay to get up to snuff, and SIGNATURE QB ANIMATIONS(sorry, im going to throw that in every reply i do)

[Guillotine 1]

Re: Madden 09 - 10 unpredictability

Phenominal topic, sensational ideas.


Now we're thinking, random mishaps are a vital part of the human dynamic in sports. I fully support this type of gameplay feature/change in Madden 10.

Bad snaps from the center, a mishandled hold by the holder, QB/Center exchange fumbles, occassional shanks by kickers...yes...I'm all for it.

This is not stuff that will happen all the time...just just random flukes.

[strickzilla]

Re: Madden 09 - 10 unpredictability

another one is shotgun snaps. i think the Centers thp/tha raiting SHOULD matter so you cant take just any lineman and plug them in at center and if you do going shotgun should be a risk