Would bringing back the old Vision Cone be that bad?

[nuckles2k2]

I know what Ian previously said about it... and I have seen that monstrosity with all of those colors (which is likely a joke), but it got me thinking.

We want a sim game right? Well how is pocket awareness depicted in Madden with no vision cone? If vision cone were back...and a player decided to stare down a receiver on the right sideline while in the pocket, waiting for this guy to get open and he's holding on to the ball way to long...he's not going through his progression. He's now under pressure and he's trying to buy time but still looking towards the right side of the field and the user sees a man wide open on the left sideline and mashes the button to pass to this guy; you get one of those nasty turn, locate, fire all in one smooth animation and the ball is fired on point to said receiver on the left side all the while the QB never looked over there once.

How exaclty is that sim? If it's impossible to move the QBs vision cone over to that side and fire a pass off before getting sacked that's because you held onto the ball too long....THAT does happen on sundays.

But I can understand the argument of actually having a visual to decpict the QBs line of sight as being kind of "unsim."

Just my 2 cents.

[ncaa07jones]

Re: Would bringing back the old Vision Cone be that bad?

If it's toggle(able) I wouldn't mind I never used it.

[nuckles2k2]

Re: Would bringing back the old Vision Cone be that bad?

oh for sure, I wouldn't want them to force it on folks who don't want to use it. But I think it makes the game a little bit more sim if the actual QB on the screen has to look at someone before passing it to him as opposed to the QB on the sticks.

[marktg30]

Re: Would bringing back the old Vision Cone be that bad?

Exactly - I hated not being able to turn it off on All-Madden back in the day...

[STLRams]

Re: Would bringing back the old Vision Cone be that bad?

Yes, it would be that bad. NFL football games where fine before the vision cone, and they where fine without it. It just does not look good and it just doesn't seem SIM. I remember when it was first introduced me and my friends where like - what is this, is this for little kids or something, turn it off, it looks like the QB has headlights. Maybe have the option to turn it on, but I think it will be better to have it off by defualt. One of the things everyone has been stressing is SIM for Madden10, no weapons, no lead block, no extra stuff around players, just straight up football. I know some people like it, but when I'm playing and looking at the game I want to feel like I'm watching a real NFL game, thats what I loved about NFL2K5, you felt like you where watching a real game while playing. NO HEAD LIGHTS on the QB.

[PGaither84]

Re: Would bringing back the old Vision Cone be that bad?

I always had mixed emotions about the QB cone and one of the problems I had was that you had to not only make your reads, but you also had to make your QB make your reads and that delay really messed me up. I also don't liek the idea of staring a reciver down. I try to watch the SS and Mike backer and decied what the coverage is to make my throws. Good QBs liek Manning and Brady read the D and bad QBs like Alex Smith and Rex Grossman stare recivers down. The game tries to show this by giving Manning and Brady super vision while giving Grossman and Smith tunnel vision. This was realistic, but as a player I know how to run my offense and if I were the head coach I would instruct and work with my QB teaching them how to read the D and not stare recivers down. When I play the game I hate having to read the D, then hold RT/R2 and press the reciver's button and wait for the cone to move [which may take too long and he isn't open anymore] to make a pass.

This is a fine line. I agree that players in your example drive me nuts, but why should players who understand thier reads be punished by a sluggish cone? I know that in cover 2 man under my slant will be open and that against a cover 2 zone under that my post will be open and that against a cover 4 my flats route will be open. But in each exampel I have ot make my QB know that too and wait. *sigh*

[nuckles2k2]

Re: Would bringing back the old Vision Cone be that bad?

Yes, it would be that bad. NFL football games where fine before the vision cone, and they where fine without it. It just does not look good and it just doesn't seem SIM. I remember when it was first introduced me and my friends where like - what is this, is this for little kids or something, turn it off, it looks like the QB has headlights. Maybe have the option to turn it on, but I think it will be better to have it off by defualt. One of the things everyone has been stressing is SIM for Madden10, no weapons, no lead block, no extra stuff around players, just straight up football. I know some people like it, but when I'm playing and looking at the game I want to feel like I'm watching a real NFL game, thats what I loved about NFL2K5, you felt like you where watching a real game while playing. NO HEAD LIGHTS on the QB.

as long as they make passes to guys that are clearly out of the QB's line of sight realistically inaccurate then I'm cool with there not being a cone on the field. But if I'm collapsing the left side of the pocket and the QB starts stepping right while looking right I don't want to see any wild passes to the left sideline that are right at the dude like the QBs peripheral vision extends all the way around his head.

[PGaither84]

Re: Would bringing back the old Vision Cone be that bad?

P.S. the cone looked ugly and I agree with Ian that we should get back to "just football."

[nuckles2k2]

Re: Would bringing back the old Vision Cone be that bad?

I always had mixed emotions about the QB cone and one of the problems I had was that you had to not only make your reads, but you also had to make your QB make your reads and that delay really messed me up. I also don't liek the idea of staring a reciver down. I try to watch the SS and Mike backer and decied what the coverage is to make my throws. Good QBs liek Manning and Brady read the D and bad QBs like Alex Smith and Rex Grossman stare recivers down. The game tries to show this by giving Manning and Brady super vision while giving Grossman and Smith tunnel vision. This was realistic, but as a player I know how to run my offense and if I were the head coach I would instruct and work with my QB teaching them how to read the D and not stare recivers down. When I play the game I hate having to read the D, then hold RT/R2 and press the reciver's button and wait for the cone to move [which may take too long and he isn't open anymore] to make a pass.

This is a fine line. I agree that players in your example drive me nuts, but why should players who understand thier reads be punished by a sluggish cone? I know that in cover 2 man under my slant will be open and that against a cover 2 zone under that my post will be open and that against a cover 4 my flats route will be open. But in each exampel I have ot make my QB know that too and wait. *sigh*

how did you move the cone? with the analog stick or with R trigger (or R2) and the receiver icon? because the trigger + button icon was an instant head swivel in that guy's direction.
And you could select which receiver was #1 in the progression by holding R and pressing his icon before you snapped the ball. It really wasn't all that bad. But if they could speed it up if people felt it was too slow then I'm down with that.

[Pnutt6]

Re: Would bringing back the old Vision Cone be that bad?

To me having a lighted cone on the field takes away from the feel of realism. It's just as bad as the lighted squares in the endzone for celebrations.

[MRxAmazing]

Re: Would bringing back the old Vision Cone be that bad?

I would love it. Especially if it works when trying to look off a safety. Pump fakes could be lethal. If it's in the game, it must have an on/off toggle.

[nuckles2k2]

Re: Would bringing back the old Vision Cone be that bad?

I agree with you guys when you say it looks unrealistic on the field but I guess I'll hold final judgment on this issue until we have some actual gameplay or the demo. Because in that "fake" vision cone pic, if Warner's head never moves from the position that it's in and he fires a pass to the X receiver then in my eyes that's way more unrealistic than a transparent cone telling you what your QB can and can't see. So if that pass comes of pretty inaccurate without a cone I'll be cool, but if it's on the money then we have a QB who can see through the side of his head...

[ScoobySnax]

Re: Would bringing back the old Vision Cone be that bad?

Here's my rationale. When I play Madden, I am the quarterback. I go through my progressions on field and when someone is open, I get them the ball. I don't need to have the QB move his head because I am looking around the field. It makes perfect sense to NOT have QB Vision.

[nuckles2k2]

Re: Would bringing back the old Vision Cone be that bad?

Here's my rationale. When I play Madden, I am the quarterback. I go through my progressions on field and when someone is open, I get them the ball. I don't need to have the QB move his head because I am looking around the field. It makes perfect sense to NOT have QB Vision.

But then that's not quite realistic then if the QB can make accurate throws to guy's he's not looking at on the field. If the mantra is "see it on sundays, see it in Madden" then were's the dude who sees the receiver for the QB in real life? I think the concept of the cone adds realism...the visual might subtract some. But I'd be willing to take that deduction.

[Pnutt6]

Re: Would bringing back the old Vision Cone be that bad?

Here's my rationale. When I play Madden, I am the quarterback. I go through my progressions on field and when someone is open, I get them the ball. I don't need to have the QB move his head because I am looking around the field. It makes perfect sense to NOT have QB Vision.

Exactly. With the vision cone your in essence having to make your read twice. In the NFL and in Madden there isn't enough time to do that. The player is reading the field as the QB.

We need some kind of peripheral that scans our eyes as we play and that controls the vision cone.