Keep adaptive AI out of On-line!

[CapnKill]

Snipped from the blog:

Having individual defenders make realtime adjustments meant that we could implement Adaptive AI for online and head-to-head play as well (i.e. not just for the CPU players). So if your opponent starts running something that is becoming overly effective, and you don’t feel like you can’t stop it with your play calling, then at least your teammates will start learning how to stop it on their own.

Ok, I can totally understand why Adaptive AI should be in the off-line game, but on-line?! Isn't it my responsibility to put my players in the right position to defend what my opponent is doing?

I don't want my defenders to get smarter just cause my opponent is able to beat my a$$ with a specific play. Ratings are ratings, they should not budge in an on-line game.

If i'm getting beat by out routes constantly then I should be able to shade my DB to play the outside, or maybe put him in a flat, or a move him a bit so he plays it better... isn't that the whole point of on-line?

This sounds to me like "Auto Catchup" from racing games... I just don't think it has a place on-line.

[canes21]

Re: Keep adaptive AI out of On-line!

It should be online. Why? Well, in Madden online you are the coach and only ONE player of all eleven. That leaves 10 players out there. IF the opponent runs the ball 10 straight times, well they should still bite on the PA even if you call man coverage.

In real life a defensive coordinator will call a play, but if Santana Moss has beaten Ty Law on an out route all day, well Ty Law will bite on a fake out route even if he wasn't supposed to.

[Valdarez]

Re: Keep adaptive AI out of On-line!

It should be online. Why? Well, in Madden online you are the coach and only ONE player of all eleven. That leaves 10 players out there. IF the opponent runs the ball 10 straight times, well they should still bite on the PA even if you call man coverage.

In real life a defensive coordinator will call a play, but if Santana Moss has beaten Ty Law on an out route all day, well Ty Law will bite on a fake out route even if he wasn't supposed to.

Exactly. Adaptive AI definitely needs to be instituted in online play.

[marktg30]

Re: Keep adaptive AI out of On-line!

Snipped from the blog:
Ok, I can totally understand why Adaptive AI should be in the off-line game, but on-line?! Isn't it my responsibility to put my players in the right position to defend what my opponent is doing?

I don't want my defenders to get smarter just cause my opponent is able to beat my a$$ with a specific play. Ratings are ratings, they should not budge in an on-line game.

If i'm getting beat by out routes constantly then I should be able to shade my DB to play the outside, or maybe put him in a flat, or a move him a bit so he plays it better... isn't that the whole point of on-line?

This sounds to me like "Auto Catchup" from racing games... I just don't think it has a place on-line.

Cheeser Alert!!!!

[shotgun styles]

Re: Keep adaptive AI out of On-line!

Cheeser Alert!!!!

Word.

[XtremeDunkz]

Re: Keep adaptive AI out of On-line!

Thread Failure

[CapnKill]

Re: Keep adaptive AI out of On-line!

Cheeser Alert!!!!

Are you serious? Might as well not even post.

Give me the tools to stop everything. Give me WR Shading, give me individual bump, give me the zones I need, eliminate the RC and I'll be happy.

Knowing what zones defend what types of routes is key, shading WRs is also key, double teams are key, defensive playmakers are key, they are all tools we should have at our disposal to defend what our opponents are doing.

Magically boosting players ratings so they can stop something I'm incapable of stoping myself is a cop out... this is like the equivalent of training wheels! Why should I bother to study what my opponent is doing when I know that if they do it too often my 10 AI friends will automatically stop it for me?!

This is not the answer!

At least give us on-line hard core matches and turn it off for those.

OR, PLEASE give me an option to turn it off for custom on-line games... or leagues or whatever. Please make it an option!

[Boucher]

Re: Keep adaptive AI out of On-line!

Cheeser Alert!!!!

Haha

[CapnKill]

Re: Keep adaptive AI out of On-line!

It should be online. Why? Well, in Madden online you are the coach and only ONE player of all eleven. That leaves 10 players out there. IF the opponent runs the ball 10 straight times, well they should still bite on the PA even if you call man coverage.

Yes, 10 players out there that YOU can put anywhere you want, that YOU can assign any defensive assignment you want that YOU"VE selected based on their ratings to play the positions you want. Its all within YOUR control.

What kind of satisfaction am I supposed to get when I run the same stupid D that fails the first 2 or 3 times and then suddenly starts to magically work without me doing nothing. What can I possibly learn from this?!

This is a game where you are supposed to analyze what your opponent is doing and then draw up a defense to stop them. People that don't do well at madden are people that don't stop to disect and then respond accordingly. They run the same stupid D over and over and over and get all upset when it continues to fail time after time. Now you put in this stupid crutch and they think all of a sudden that they are doing well, when really its just the adaptive AI that is playing for them.

I can't possibly be the only person that thinks this is a bad idea. ON-line is Human vs Human, period. You should be in control of everything. If I get beat, then I get beat, and I learn from it and come back and try something different. Don't take that element of the game out...

[coogrfan]

Re: Keep adaptive AI out of On-line!

Are you serious? Might as well not even post.

Give me the tools to stop everything. Give me WR Shading, give me individual bump, give me the zones I need, eliminate the RC and I'll be happy.

Knowing what zones defend what types of routes is key, shading WRs is also key, double teams are key, defensive playmakers are key, they are all tools we should have at our disposal to defend what our opponents are doing.

Magically boosting players ratings so they can stop something I'm incapable of stoping myself is a cop out... this is like the equivalent of training wheels! Why should I bother to study what my opponent is doing when I know that if they do it too often my 10 AI friends will automatically stop it for me?!

This is not the answer!

At least give us on-line hard core matches and turn it off for those.

OR, PLEASE give me an option to turn it off for custom on-line games... or leagues or whatever. Please make it an option!

First, they aren't going to boosting the ratings across the board, just play recognition.

"It should also be said that were keeping some integrity by not modifying physical attributes like speed, jumping, or acceleration."

The point of this is to simulate the players learning on their own.

Second, relying solely on user adjustments as you suggest is too easy for cheesers to circumvent via a quick snap.

[marktg30]

Re: Keep adaptive AI out of On-line!

This isn't the Kentucky Derby... You can stop beating the dead horse.

[XtremeDunkz]

Re: Keep adaptive AI out of On-line!

This only hurts the people that sun the same things all game long. Why someone wouldn't want this online I can not understand. Unless that person was someone that runs the same things all game long.

[CapnKill]

Re: Keep adaptive AI out of On-line!

First, they aren't going to boosting the ratings across the board, just play recognition.

Why adjust anything? If my ILBers play recognition is 75 then its 75. That's his rating, boom, in stone, 75, that's where he's at.

Second, relying solely on user adjustments as you suggest is too easy for cheesers to circumvent via a quick snap.

Its not. On the Ps2 game this wasn't in, and everything could be defended and it made for fantastic games. The priority should be to take the cheese out of the game and make everything defendable.

[Pnutt6]

Re: Keep adaptive AI out of On-line!

If this was tennis I would say good idea, but since it's a team game, it should definitely be online.

Even if I take the time to adjust every single player to exactly where he needs to be before every single play, (time which you don't have when playing online) after the ball is snapped they are being controlled by the AI. If the AI doesn't know whats going on then it wont react correctly to the situation I put him in.

[CapnKill]

Re: Keep adaptive AI out of On-line!

This only hurts the people that sun the same things all game long. Why someone wouldn't want this online I can not understand. Unless that person was someone that runs the same things all game long.

I think people are labeling me a cheeser without really understanding where I'm coming from.

I'm speaking from the POV of the defense. I DON'T WANT help in stopping my opponent. If someone runs the same thing all game long against me then that's fine. It is MY job to stop them. If I can't stop them then why shouldn't they keep running the same thing?!