why do i keep hearing negative things about pro-tak?

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  • JohnnyNutman
    Rookie
    • Apr 2009
    • 234

    #1

    why do i keep hearing negative things about pro-tak?

    i watched the eagles/panthers game last night. right on the opening drive seeing defensive players dive for the ball carrier and assist each other in gang tackles; ball carrier trying to push for the first down. madden just looks so much more like that now.

    the pockets are great. i dont have to bootleg out of the pocket on every play to get time to pass. sure, sometimes i get sacked before the play fully develops, but that happens IRL. i can actually step up in the pocket to throw a pass.

    the game isnt perfect & there are still things that need to cleaned up, but overall i think they've made amazing progress in creating a more physically realistic football game. i wouldnt say im a 100% sim player (but im def not an online cheeser), but i try to play to what real football is like. however, ive always depended on the game to limit what i can do (from a physical perspective). this game has gotten it the closest ever i think.

    so why all the hate towards the pro-tak system? (i play on all-pro/hardcore btw).
    this band is pretty cool. u should check them out: http://www.myspace.com/revolutionofthedead
  • boom.h
    Rookie
    • Jun 2009
    • 77

    #2
    Re: why do i keep hearing negative things about pro-tak?

    No one is hating as far as I know. A lot of people just think Pro-Tak to be polished. For me APF 2K8 looks more like real life than Madden 10, still.

    Comment

    • Jesus
      Banned
      • Aug 2009
      • 1860

      #3
      Re: why do i keep hearing negative things about pro-tak?

      you keep hearing negative things about Pro-Tak because it is nowhere near dynamic as it was touted to be.

      • You have no choice to join the tackles, it just accepts you into to its exclusive group hug if you are in the area.And even then, only as many as they game wishes.

      • Defenders are helpless if the game decides the offensive player will break a 12 man tackle.

      • It only represents football in that its a mass amount of bodies around the ball carrier. Otherwise it looks like a scrum and not a group tackle attempt

      • All the 'calculations' that were supposed to be taken into account are bogus. Ive had Willie Parker drag a couple DTs, no exaggeration.

      • There is only one ( maybe 2) animations to hitstick the pile, and those opportunities are far and few between.

      • Its completely and utterly canned, no stitching, no branching. Once you've seen all the animations, you can correctly state the outcome of the tackle as soon as it begins, no matter what is pressed.

      I hope that clears things up for you.

      Comment

      • RyanMoody21
        Pro
        • Jun 2009
        • 690

        #4
        Re: why do i keep hearing negative things about pro-tak?

        My issue with Pro Tack which I now assume stands for "Procedural Tackling" was what made it a "Technology'. I even started a post about it before the game came out. What real world data was this based on and why did the game need up to 9 man tackles to start with? More so given the fact the game had larger outstanding issues and the current tackling system was far from flawless.

        Not once did I see the term "Animation based" used in regards to Pro Tack until the M10 owners manual came out.

        No offense to the OP, I really don't care how realistic Madden looks, I just want it to play realistic. Once it can do that, the realistic looking aspect will come naturally.

        Pro Tack is just another animation based system that seems to not take into account physics, weight or momentum. Of course that has lead to its far share of unrealistic 60+yard "career highlight" runs from sub par players. Something Ian assured us was very rare and sporadic and would never happen frequently. Aside from that, it does some really nasty things in regards to player morphs on both sides of the ball and at times totally negates the user of control.

        When all players defensive players (Dline, DB's, LB's and S's) all use the same tacking technique via the same animation, I just dont see much procedure in that.

        Much like Jesus said (referring to thread above) many of us were expecting dynamic tackling where users had input into player placement and tackling style. What we got was another sequence of animations that dictates the game for us.
        Last edited by RyanMoody21; 09-14-2009, 07:38 AM.

        Comment

        • JohnnyNutman
          Rookie
          • Apr 2009
          • 234

          #5
          Re: why do i keep hearing negative things about pro-tak?

          when i said looks realistic i meant plays realistically as well. i thought that was obviously implied, but i guess not.

          also, ive yet to see any ridiculous runs & broken tackles. i havent seen backup RBs beat 7 man gang tackles nor have i seen willie parker drag a DT around.

          i do agree tho that i think u should have some control over ur player when u tackle the ball carrier. then again, i found out that none of the new controls are listed in the manual so who knows maybe u can.
          this band is pretty cool. u should check them out: http://www.myspace.com/revolutionofthedead

          Comment

          • Gotmadskillzson
            Live your life
            • Apr 2008
            • 23424

            #6
            Re: why do i keep hearing negative things about pro-tak?

            You do have control as stated in the strategy guide and in the back of the game manual. Just use the right stick to steer the person in the direction you want them to go.

            Over all I like Pro Tak, it is a great step in the right direction. I played many games and I haven't seen people or the cpu in that matter break multiple tackles at a time. Nor have I seen them drag players far.

            Honestly I can't wait for NCAA 11 to have Pro Tak. People seem to forget that it took EA a few years before they made Hit Stick work smoothly. So it will be the same thing with Pro Tak.

            Comment

            • mems1224
              Rookie
              • Aug 2008
              • 461

              #7
              Re: why do i keep hearing negative things about pro-tak?

              Originally posted by JohnnyNutman
              when i said looks realistic i meant plays realistically as well. i thought that was obviously implied, but i guess not.

              also, ive yet to see any ridiculous runs & broken tackles. i havent seen backup RBs beat 7 man gang tackles nor have i seen willie parker drag a DT around.

              i do agree tho that i think u should have some control over ur player when u tackle the ball carrier. then again, i found out that none of the new controls are listed in the manual so who knows maybe u can.
              really? cause ive seen plenty of Rbs break at 4 man gang tackle, have about 3 other players bounce off the pile and watch as the RB runs for a 70 yard TD despite the fact that 7 people were around him.

              and ive seen it done with small backs like steve slaton and warrick dunn. this is just like past madden's. once you've seen all the animations you've seen them all.

              Comment

              • RyanMoody21
                Pro
                • Jun 2009
                • 690

                #8
                Re: why do i keep hearing negative things about pro-tak?

                Originally posted by Gotmadskillzson
                You do have control as stated in the strategy guide and in the back of the game manual. Just use the right stick to steer the person in the direction you want them to go.

                Over all I like Pro Tak, it is a great step in the right direction. I played many games and I haven't seen people or the cpu in that matter break multiple tackles at a time. Nor have I seen them drag players far.
                Well, I guess maybe it just boils down to playing time. I have a hard time imagining that a user hasn't seen a player break a gang tackle for a TD. I cant imagine that a user hasn't seen a player get drug as they "fall out" of a broken tackle. On the default All Pro or All Madden settings, I cant see it taking more than 30-40 games to see either of those.

                Pro Tack was sold to us as "Dynamic" and a "Technology" that would respect players weight, speed and momentum.

                Its already been proven that Pro Tack renders the hit stick mute a majority of the times. Its also been proven that Pro Tack has a strong tendency to suck players into the gang tackle animation. Just on those two examples alone, I beg to differ from a user control standpoint.

                Comment

                • spankdatazz22
                  All Star
                  • May 2003
                  • 6219

                  #9
                  Re: why do i keep hearing negative things about pro-tak?

                  Originally posted by Jesus
                  you keep hearing negative things about Pro-Tak because it is nowhere near dynamic as it was touted to be.
                  Agreed. While I think it's better than what Tiburon's done to date, it's more evolutionary than revolutionary - which means it's no where near where it should be. And I get the feeling we'd have seen a lot more of the "group hug" and "ball carrier breaking 3+defender tackles for a TD" animations if the community hadn't clowned it early on. That said I do think the game does a fairly good job w/some of the wrap tackles. But a poor job with impact hits/tackles. Far too many hug-then-fall-down or shoestring tackles - way too many. The defender juggles the all carrier into the air while hitting from behind is flat out silly and needs to be completely removed. And again, occurs far too frequently. Pro-Tak's implementation is pretty disappointing
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                  Comment

                  • Radioactiveman
                    Banned
                    • Jul 2004
                    • 775

                    #10
                    Re: why do i keep hearing negative things about pro-tak?

                    I think pro-tak works ok...it's alot better than last gen tackling where two guys would collide and would lay on the ground falling in opposite directions. To be honest, I dont see the gang tackles that often (beyond 2 or 3 defenders)...Maybe I play conservative defenses but I don't get burned that often either (by the cpu on "all star" settings default sliders)...I had a game last night where I had the Jets shutout at half time using the Browns. It was 7-0 at half.

                    There are plenty of things that annoy me about this Madden but I'm finding that I get realistic scores and stats more so than any version before. It's weird, it's kind of a love-hate relationship.

                    Comment

                    • Gotmadskillzson
                      Live your life
                      • Apr 2008
                      • 23424

                      #11
                      Re: why do i keep hearing negative things about pro-tak?

                      On the default All Pro or All Madden settings,



                      Oh see no wonder, because I don't ever use default settings so maybe that is why I don't see the problems you are seeing.

                      Comment

                      • KBLover
                        Hall Of Fame
                        • Aug 2009
                        • 12172

                        #12
                        Re: why do i keep hearing negative things about pro-tak?

                        Originally posted by RMoody
                        Well, I guess maybe it just boils down to playing time. I have a hard time imagining that a user hasn't seen a player break a gang tackle for a TD. I cant imagine that a user hasn't seen a player get drug as they "fall out" of a broken tackle. On the default All Pro or All Madden settings, I cant see it taking more than 30-40 games to see either of those.
                        Maybe that's why I don't see it that often, I'm not using default settings?

                        Most of the broken tackles I see are stiff arms and spin moves.

                        As far joining pro-tak gang tackling, doesn't the manual say you can hit X to "assist" in tackling, or does that not work at all?
                        "Some people call it butterflies, but to him, it probably feels like pterodactyls in his stomach." --Plesac in MLB18

                        Comment

                        • cdon2k
                          MVP
                          • Mar 2006
                          • 1042

                          #13
                          Re: why do i keep hearing negative things about pro-tak?

                          For an EA 1st year feature (which are notorious for being broken), pro tak performs admirably. I will agree with a fellow poster that 2k5's gang tackles look better and more organic as speed and momentum seem to play into them a bit more. On topic, pro tak performs very well for a year one feature. I am looking forward to patch 1 that addresses the big backs being tackled/small backs breaking free issue.

                          Game on!
                          Twitter: CitizenChad
                          FB: NoneOfYourBuisness :)

                          Comment

                          • DrewBledsoe
                            Pro
                            • Oct 2004
                            • 625

                            #14
                            Re: why do i keep hearing negative things about pro-tak?

                            I fixed the "Pro-Tak Moments" as I call them, with sliders a long while back. I tested literally 100's of plays in practice mode. RBs will break out of 4 man+ gang tackles (PT moments or PTM) roughly once every 7 or 8 times on default sliders. This is a ridiculous amount. Particularly as they almost always result in automatic TDs afterwards.

                            I adjusted it, so that it will happen roughly once or twice a season, given approx 350 carries for a back. The method? It's simple. The opposition's TKL slider must be 5 higher than the RB's BRK TCK slider.
                            Madden :- Bears VS Vikings Sunday Night 08:- "The Bears defence have some of the best strippers in the NFL" :)

                            Comment

                            • Steve Slaton #1 Fan
                              Rookie
                              • Aug 2009
                              • 94

                              #15
                              Re: why do i keep hearing negative things about pro-tak?

                              I love pro-tak. Not much else to say.

                              Comment

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