The Quarterback's Eyes...

[ZoneBlitz]

So, I have watched much analysis of NFL games this year. In almost every analysis, when I hear them talk about a critical play, they mention the importance of the quarterback "looking the defense off" with their eyes, or the defense reading the qbs' eyes.

My point is this; any football player will tell you that the dynamic of seeing where the QB is looking is critical to the game. I don't think that Madden can be a serious nor realistic simulation of football without, in some way, including this dynamic. I know when they put it in, people complained. However, the result was a return to it being a cheese-fest.

In my opinion, it's really important that we get to see where the QB is looking. In real life, that is crucial to the sport. So, if it's in the game, then it SHOULD be in the game.

Your thoughts...

[exclusivelover]

Re: The Quarterback's Eyes...

The idea was good, the execution was clunky/poor.

[ZoneBlitz]

Re: The Quarterback's Eyes...

The idea was good, the execution was clunky/poor.

Indeed, it could have been better - I just wonder what they should have done. It does need to come into the game. Not including it was a nod to cheesers, I think.

[TCrouch]

Re: The Quarterback's Eyes...

I've wanted something like this for years. Oddly enough, Tecmo Bowl had one of the greatest systems for this. Every play in real life has a progression.

All they'd need to do is start the QB's vision on the primary target. Flick the R stick to the right to move to your next progression. Flick it back to the left to simulate looking off a receiver and then back.

Pull the RT to throw the ball.

Throw the LT to throw the ball to your designated "checkdown" receiver (a back or TE, etc).

Simple method of giving us a true progression of QB reads and throws. I don't know why it's so tough when Tecmo Bowl on NES had one button to move to the next receiver and one to throw--QB's can't look at everything all the time, so at least that system would simulate it (since we have a Bird's Eye view of the entire field and can see everything at once, it would handicap that).

[sois]

Re: The Quarterback's Eyes...

I would accept the Tecmo Toggle. It was great. The only part I don't like is the cone allowed for "aiming". Aim is awesome.

[Only1LT]

Re: The Quarterback's Eyes...

I've wanted something like this for years. Oddly enough, Tecmo Bowl had one of the greatest systems for this. Every play in real life has a progression.

All they'd need to do is start the QB's vision on the primary target. Flick the R stick to the right to move to your next progression. Flick it back to the left to simulate looking off a receiver and then back.

Pull the RT to throw the ball.

Throw the LT to throw the ball to your designated "checkdown" receiver (a back or TE, etc).

Simple method of giving us a true progression of QB reads and throws. I don't know why it's so tough when Tecmo Bowl on NES had one button to move to the next receiver and one to throw--QB's can't look at everything all the time, so at least that system would simulate it (since we have a Bird's Eye view of the entire field and can see everything at once, it would handicap that).

Interesting idea, but I just want to really understand what you are saying. Are you saying that there would be no receiver icons, only that you would highlight a receiver by going through reads with the right stick?

[LBzrule]

Re: The Quarterback's Eyes...

How are we going to see the QB's eyes in a video game when his back is to us? There are certain perspectives here that need to be accounted for. First there is the on the field perspective in what the A.I players and the human controlled defensive player sees. Second, there is real life, which is completely different than a video game. As a human controlling a defensive player, I cannot see the QB's eyes since his back is to me.

Also we have to take this into account. What are they going to have to do to the defense to get a mechanic like this to be functional? If it means slowing down the pass rush and blitzes I'm against it completely. Unfortunately, I don't see how everything can be realistic. I don't see having a realistic pass rush in terms of speed, and realistic blitzes in terms of speed and having a mechanic like this be functional. I think a choice has to be made you either put a mechanic like this in and fuxor the defensive front 7, or you keep it as is and get the pass rush and blitzing more realistic. I don't like thinking in either or terms, but I think this is one case where it unfortunately is useful.

[moose1619]

Re: The Quarterback's Eyes...

I've wanted something like this for years. Oddly enough, Tecmo Bowl had one of the greatest systems for this. Every play in real life has a progression.

All they'd need to do is start the QB's vision on the primary target. Flick the R stick to the right to move to your next progression. Flick it back to the left to simulate looking off a receiver and then back.

Pull the RT to throw the ball.

Throw the LT to throw the ball to your designated "checkdown" receiver (a back or TE, etc).


Simple method of giving us a true progression of QB reads and throws. I don't know why it's so tough when Tecmo Bowl on NES had one button to move to the next receiver and one to throw--QB's can't look at everything all the time, so at least that system would simulate it (since we have a Bird's Eye view of the entire field and can see everything at once, it would handicap that).

I agree with what you say, but even though eveyplay has a progression a qb knows to hit his checkdown anytime he is in trouble. This may be his 5th progression, but if he feels pressure he goes to checkdown or outlet now. A qb also may have a hot read that may be primary, but if the hot is off the receiver may be a part of the 3rd progression. This couldn't be accurately reflected in a tecmo bowl type system.

[Glorious Arc]

Re: The Quarterback's Eyes...

How are we going to see the QB's eyes in a video game when his back is to us? There are certain perspectives here that need to be accounted for. First there is the on the field perspective in what the A.I players and the human controlled defensive player sees. Second, there is real life, which is completely different than a video game. As a human controlling a defensive player, I cannot see the QB's eyes since his back is to me.

Also we have to take this into account. What are they going to have to do to the defense to get a mechanic like this to be functional? If it means slowing down the pass rush and blitzes I'm against it completely. Unfortunately, I don't see how everything can be realistic. I don't see having a realistic pass rush in terms of speed, and realistic blitzes in terms of speed and having a mechanic like this be functional. I think a choice has to be made you either put a mechanic like this in and fuxor the defensive front 7, or you keep it as is and get the pass rush and blitzing more realistic. I don't like thinking in either or terms, but I think this is one case where it unfortunately is useful.

The sad thing is under the current system, I can take Manning and lower his awareness down to 0(or 12 because that is the new low) and his overall would drop down to a 70 something yet he plays just like the same Manning with 99 awareness.

There is no reason to draft a smart QB or use a vet QB who has a decent arm but high awareness. All that matters is THP and the THAs(maybe TOR but that depends on play style) at the QB position and IRL you cant tell me that is all you need.

The some of the people at OS are hypocrites in this matter. The claim they want a sim game but then say they dont want anything to get in the way of their god mode view of the field.

If you want to make a game that is real and were putting up 40 points is a rare achievement. Bring in any type of the QB vision back. There have been numerous suggestions to make it better or brand new ideas to implement a new system. And also keep the pass rush the same. There is a reason why teams go 3 and out against good defenses or drives stall out.

(This is not completely directed at you, it is more intented to the entire audience of QB vision.)

[sois]

Re: The Quarterback's Eyes...

I agree with what you say, but even though eveyplay has a progression a qb knows to hit his checkdown anytime he is in trouble. This may be his 5th progression, but if he feels pressure he goes to checkdown or outlet now. A qb also may have a hot read that may be primary, but if the hot is off the receiver may be a part of the 3rd progression. This couldn't be accurately reflected in a tecmo bowl type system.

Yes it can, easily. I know on Pro T Screen L that if the defense picks my play, I can go AAB and quickly outlet to my RB. It's just something you get good at with practice. You have to give the game effort to become efficient on blitzes.

It's really amazing how Tecmo does so many things so well. Pass progression and ratings are top notch. You line up a 19 HP WR against a 63 HP DB and you are going to see some popcorn. That WR is going to go tumbling to the ground.

[ZoneBlitz]

Re: The Quarterback's Eyes...

How are we going to see the QB's eyes in a video game when his back is to us? There are certain perspectives here that need to be accounted for. First there is the on the field perspective in what the A.I players and the human controlled defensive player sees. Second, there is real life, which is completely different than a video game. As a human controlling a defensive player, I cannot see the QB's eyes since his back is to me.

Also we have to take this into account. What are they going to have to do to the defense to get a mechanic like this to be functional? If it means slowing down the pass rush and blitzes I'm against it completely. Unfortunately, I don't see how everything can be realistic. I don't see having a realistic pass rush in terms of speed, and realistic blitzes in terms of speed and having a mechanic like this be functional. I think a choice has to be made you either put a mechanic like this in and fuxor the defensive front 7, or you keep it as is and get the pass rush and blitzing more realistic. I don't like thinking in either or terms, but I think this is one case where it unfortunately is useful.

I think a possible approach might combine the vision cone and what Tecmo did. Either way - you know where the QB is looking. This is too important an aspect for the game to be left out. It is fundamental to football. There is a way.

I just think that it's time to take the next step in football simulation. Madden is doing a great job at what it does; but as far as depth regarding the sport of football, much more needs to be done.

[sois]

Re: The Quarterback's Eyes...

The sad thing is under the current system, I can take Manning and lower his awareness down to 0(or 12 because that is the new low) and his overall would drop down to a 70 something yet he plays just like the same Manning with 99 awareness.

There is no reason to draft a smart QB or use a vet QB who has a decent arm but high awareness. All that matters is THP and the THAs(maybe TOR but that depends on play style) at the QB position and IRL you cant tell me that is all you need.

The some of the people at OS are hypocrites in this matter. The claim they want a sim game but then say they dont want anything to get in the way of their god mode view of the field.

If you want to make a game that is real and were putting up 40 points is a rare achievement. Bring in any type of the QB vision back. There have been numerous suggestions to make it better or brand new ideas to implement a new system. And also keep the pass rush the same. There is a reason why teams go 3 and out against good defenses or drives stall out.

(This is not completely directed at you, it is more intented to the entire audience of QB vision.)

This is why I love the cone. Tecmo progression was nice, but the cone is so much better. Aim needs to be a part of passing. Period.

Think about successful shooters. In CoD, there is a difference between a sniper rifle and a shotgun. Using the same theory, you can create a mechanic that reflects the difference between Tavaris and Brady.

Cone FTW. No trigger toggle either, aiming (moving the cone manually) is the true sim way to go.

[shavane]

Re: The Quarterback's Eyes...

The idea was good, the execution was clunky/poor.

I would love to see this aspect added to the passing game along with the pump fake. I've harped about Madden not including this in the game but to be honest with you I don't know how it would be implemented without being clunky and cumbersome so I'd rather it be left out all together.

2 things holding this back is the defenders do not react realistically so it doesn't matter what you do from the QB or play calling end because they are going to basically do what they do. i.e. you can run the ball and run quick outs and slants all day in a effort to set the defense up for a play later but as soon as you try to pump fake that out or PA pass the DB is still running stride for stride with you WR because there is no real logic involved when it comes to the cpu playing defense.

The 2nd thing (and this is what I actually thought procedural awareness was when they showed all the blogs and vidz before the release of madden) with the current engine there is no way to look a defender off.

I've seen some fighting games like RE5 and Silent hill where the characters eyes look at the closest enemy but I'm not sure how something like that would work with madden. If your QB actually had the ability to lock his eyes onto a specific WR then logically the safeties and other defenders would start to drift that way then when you pass to the WR on the other side there would be a actual opening there as the defender scrambled to get back into position.

It would be very complex and wouldn't be able to be executed right without a new engine that would mimic actual football movement. I've said before it would be great if DBs actually responded to pump fakes or the A.I. made adjustments like loading the box up to stop the run or at least lean towards it so that you can set up PA passing or double moves...REDO THE MADDEN GAME ENGINE PLEASE!!! Take a year off if you have to let us purchase a roster update and your new big addition whatever it may be for that year for $9.99, start from scratch and do the game right.

[TCrouch]

Re: The Quarterback's Eyes...

I agree with what you say, but even though eveyplay has a progression a qb knows to hit his checkdown anytime he is in trouble. This may be his 5th progression, but if he feels pressure he goes to checkdown or outlet now. A qb also may have a hot read that may be primary, but if the hot is off the receiver may be a part of the 3rd progression. This couldn't be accurately reflected in a tecmo bowl type system.

That's why I had "LT" to throw to checkdown. Any time you can just pull LT to toss it to the hot read. As for one of the previous questions, you'd have icons still--just generic receiver icons.

[shavane]

Re: The Quarterback's Eyes...

these are really good ideas. The problem is how to implement them. I know one user said how is his user controlled player supposed to read the QBs eyes I really don't know about that part of it. maybe if there was something small that can tip users off..maybe some sort of passing cone (I HATE PASSING CONES) maybe not the origional because that was too rigid and clunky but more of a vision cone. you would have to improve QB footwork also and severe penalties for throwing across QBs bodies and defenders that move and react realistically