Madden 10: AskMadden Tip of the Week

[Valdarez]

If it works every time, it's a bug, plain and simple. If it wasn't programmed to be part of the game, then it's a bug. Pretend it's a pick all you want, but you can't justify it as part of the game, it wasn't programmed as such. I'm willing to be the Sim leagues out there will outlaw this if guys start using it over and over and over again especially if the work around results in too many issues.

Playing Madden (or any football game) shouldn't be about learning how to foobar the AI, it should be about learning offensive strategies (tactics for the poster who commented on the difference) that break defensive strategies. The chess match isn't screwing the AI, then figuring out how to compensate for the screwed up AI. That's what you have to do against cheezers online and that's definitely not a chess match.

[MAHAM]

Quote: Originally Posted by Valdarez

If it works every time, it's a bug, plain and simple.

It doesn't work all the time, but some play designs take advantage of certain other plays though. For example, Texas can kill a Tampa2 because the MLB leaves a vacant area playing center field. If the MLB bites on the RB angle, then the TE splits the safeties. Its a simple read that attacks the soft spots. I think natural pick plays are a good way to attack man B&R, just like Texas is a good option vs Tampa2 D. Neither are unstoppable though.

[Valdarez]

Quote: Originally Posted by MAHAM

It doesn't work all the time, but some play designs take advantage of certain other plays though. For example, Texas can kill a Tampa2 because the MLB leaves a vacant area playing center field. If the MLB bites on the RB angle, then the TE splits the safeties. Its a simple read that attacks the soft spots. I think natural pick plays are a good way to attack man B&R, just like Texas is a good option vs Tampa2 D. Neither are unstoppable though.

Someone reported earlier that it did work every time. Are you saying you tested it and it didn't?

I think this is going to boil down to the folks who want to find something that works like / will use it, and the folks that want to play a realistic / simulation football game are going to view it as an exploit / problem with the AI / pathing.

[RyanMoody21]

Funny how I tried this (as prior posted) with the Asomugha, and saw the same results, right down to the sudden turn at the line of scrimmage when the ball is thrown.


Its right in the NFL rule book that DB's are allow to maintain legal contact with players down field. Just because EA's animation of this looks terrible and clearly the jerking of players back and forth would be PI, doesnt mean its fair play to cheese on the guy your playing.

For those of you who spoke that it didnt work every time, I suggest you try it again. Unless for some reason you choose a team running a zone coverage, this will happen, regardless of the speed or jam rating of the DB.

The only way to not have it happen, as I stated before, is to change the route of the 2nd WR. The only reason this is constantly effective is the 2nd WR lines up on the line of scrimmage while the 1st and 3rd do not, thats part of a bunch formation. This makes the DB run toward the line to cover his man, this happens at the same time the 2nd WR is running his sideline route and they blindly run into each other.

Its got nothing to do with a "chess match" or setting a legal pick, its about a glitch in the game that upon exploiting gets you 10-15 yards everything. In all honesty, the fact that people come in here and try to validate this stuff as real football strategy, makes me understand why so many people cant play online anymore.

Edit after watching 3 or 4 videos I saw alot of user manipulated defense to get plays drawn out the way they wanted. Including leaving slot WR's completely uncovered and manually controlling a safety to draw man coverage to show how "realistic" the game is. I also saw alot of rocket catching, which was talked about as if it was a favorable tactic. Atleast one other time I saw a pick set up out of the bunch formation.

[dfos81]

Quote: Originally Posted by RMoody

Its right in the NFL rule book that DB's are allow to maintain legal contact with players down field.

Nobody's arguing legal contact, its the illegal contact that pisses us off. The NFL also allows teams to run Bunch sets, which could cause natural rub plays(ie. Colts).
I've seen the db's not get rubbed when they are playing their natural spots, instead of the global BnR.
It forces the D to open up their Pb(not abusing BnR every play), so that is the chess match I'm speaking of.

Quote: Originally Posted by RMoody

Just because EA's animation of this looks terrible and clearly the jerking of players back and forth would be PI

Exactly, Just b/c EA's animation of a natural rub looks terrible doesn't mean it isn't fair play.
They are both animation flaws. This isn't a thread for animation flaws though

If playing Bunch to beat BnR is cheese to you, then so is the Wildcat.

BTW most sim leagues(ie. 40nick) won't let you Global BnR every play, they consider it cheese as well or let you use Bunch sets every play.
So this really isn't a worry for them. They just don't want to see guys doing it over and over.

If your going to BnR every play, I'm going to counter it. Simple as that
Whats cool is this isn't even an argument when playing the Cpu, b/c they wouldn't BnR enough for me to know. They would adapt and stop it in another way.
Good tip by Askmadden(albeit oldie but a goodie).

[Optimus P 1976]

first of all madden sucks u can do that with any receiver and back just do cross route thats easy man everyone knows the game is gay and stupid ratings mean nothing in madden but all u madden fans dont see that yall just see madden period not a game that is non simulation just a bummy game period where is 2k ohh i forgot E A lock up the license because they was scared of the truth

[MAHAM]

Quote: Originally Posted by RMoody

For those of you who spoke that it didnt work every time, I suggest you try it again. Unless for some reason you choose a team running a zone coverage, this will happen, regardless of the speed or jam rating of the DB. The only way to not have it happen, as I stated before, is to change the route of the 2nd WR. The only reason this is constantly effective is the 2nd WR lines up on the line of scrimmage while the 1st and 3rd do not, thats part of a bunch formation. This makes the DB run toward the line to cover his man, this happens at the same time the 2nd WR is running his sideline route and they blindly run into each other. Its got nothing to do with a "chess match" or setting a legal pick, its about a glitch in the game that upon exploiting gets you 10-15 yards everything. In all honesty, the fact that people come in here and try to validate this stuff as real football strategy, makes me understand why so many people cant play online anymore. Edit after watching 3 or 4 videos I saw alot of user manipulated defense to get plays drawn out the way they wanted. Including leaving slot WR's completely uncovered and manually controlling a safety to draw man coverage to show how "realistic" the game is. I also saw alot of rocket catching, which was talked about as if it was a favorable tactic. Atleast one other time I saw a pick set up out of the bunch formation.

I said it doesn't work all the time, and it doesn't. Try playing at game speed instead of practice mode. I can get any play to work almost constantly in practice.

I don't understand what you don't get. Half the reason you use the bunch 3wr to get a natural pick is because the two recievers are lined off the line while the middle reciever in the bunch is on the line. Its not smart to jam when you see that set. The middle reciever is easily jammed, but not the recievers off the line. If the middle reciever is jammed, it takes the lane from the defender covering the inside reciever going to the flats. The inside reciever runs under the other player being jammed at the line easily because he's off the LOS. It works because it should. It's not rocket science.

[dfos81]

Quote: Originally Posted by MAHAM

I said it doesn't work all the time, and it doesn't. Try playing at game speed instead of practice mode. I can get any play to work almost constantly in practice. I don't understand what you don't get. Half the reason you use the bunch 3wr to get a natural pick is because the two recievers are lined off the line while the middle reciever in the bunch is on the line. Its not smart to jam when you see that set. The middle reciever is easily jammed, but not the recievers off the line. If the middle reciever is jammed, it takes the lane from the defender covering the inside reciever going to the flats. The inside reciever runs under the other player being jammed at the line easily because he's off the LOS. It works because it should. It's not rocket science.

Thankyou, he makes an excuse for bumping WR's all the way down the field( he says its an animation issue, but its in the nfl rule book to allow this), but complains about a natural rub/pick off the los(which is another animation).

So that point is nullified. They are both animations, we are talking about strategy and Madden tips.

Bottom line, if he keeps calling BnR globally, I'm going to call bunch plays. This is CHESS not CHECKERS my friends!