I THINK SOME PPL ARE GOING A LITTLE TOO HARD ON THE DEVS

[TRiCKY_J]

i think some ppl here are being a little too hard on ian cummings and co. , i say that because most of the things ppl want in madden i feel like ian realizes and reads the stuff u guys want and i want too, but u have to take things into account. yes madden sucks hard in the new generation but m10 was the bestr iteration. it shows they improve every year but everything ppl want in the game cannot be thrown into the games within the development cycle. realize that these guys have 9 months to work on the game. if u want to blame some1 for maddens short comings blame EA, the publisher. not the developers because i can garntee these devs dont want to release a poor game. but the have deadlines, the have things they have to do to meet those deadlines, that means cutting corners sometimes. i want improvments in our madden games as much as the next guy but u cant h8 on ian or anyone else. hes not superman and isnt gonna totally revamp madden in a year, even 3 years. i honestly want EA to take a 1 year break and revamp madden. but they wont so the devs gotta do it the best they can. llook at the franchise mode. this year it was decent but a vast improvement over any other next gen iteration. it was very very basic. thats wat they have to do every year. set in a basic design for a segment in the game and then add the depth to it next year. all im saying is ppl need to understand the bigger picture here, ian is not going to make madden into wat it should be within a year, i dont think madden will be how it should be next year but sooner or later it will and thats the best we can hope for. these guys have 9 months to work on the game every year i think they are doing their best. thats why i dont bash the devs. and u guys shouldnt either

[IRISHFBFAN1]

Re: I THINK SOME PPL ARE GOING A LITTLE TOO HARD ON THE DEVS

Excellent post and I agree. I think MADDEN 10 is a great game, andit does show how this team improves the game every year. The problem is you got so many bitching and complaining about everything. If I were them I wouldn't listen to any of us, keep making games, hell we are all going to buy them any way!

[DoubleIt5]

Re: I THINK SOME PPL ARE GOING A LITTLE TOO HARD ON THE DEVS

Good point. I think Madden 10 was the first Madden in a while that was an improvement. Yes it is bare bones. My main gripe is simple things they could have done (sim stats post patch 2?). Also certain features being available on the PSP version but not on XBox 360 or PS3, that makes little sense. Anyways, looking forward to another step in the right direction for Madden 11.

[oneamongthefence]

Re: I THINK SOME PPL ARE GOING A LITTLE TOO HARD ON THE DEVS

Exactly. Ian is the bright light at the end of the tunnel and that light got a lot closer this last year.

[mburke2]

Re: I THINK SOME PPL ARE GOING A LITTLE TOO HARD ON THE DEVS

Great post and I can't disagree with any of it. The game improved dramatically this year and yes it could be better but they simply don't have time to improve everything in one dev cycle. If EA were to take a year or 2 off to revamp everything the game would be epic but they don't want to lose out on a whole season worth of game sales and I don't blame them in that regard since their objective as a company is to make $$. But you cant really blame Ian and his dev team b/c they can only do so much in the time that EA gives them to make the game.

[dfos81]

Re: I THINK SOME PPL ARE GOING A LITTLE TOO HARD ON THE DEVS

EA/Tiburon, Ian and Co. Keep up the good work guys. Madden 10 is still getting playing time on my PS3. Just stay the track your on, "Everything You See on Sundays".

[PantherBeast_OS]

Re: I THINK SOME PPL ARE GOING A LITTLE TOO HARD ON THE DEVS

Yea I agree the game is a big improvement from years past. Ian and hhis crew does deserve alot of credit. But the only problem around here this past year is that some people went to personal agaist Ian at times. Ian finally got tired of it and said no more. I don't blame him. He works interacting with us and so on. Alll people want to do is attack him on a personal leveal. Complaining is fine. But when it goes beyond that then is where he draws the line. But I am sure madden 11 is going to better then 10 is now.

[Widowlander]

Re: I THINK SOME PPL ARE GOING A LITTLE TOO HARD ON THE DEVS

I disagree. They don't have 9 months to work on this stuff, they've had 20+ years. All the source code from the VERY FIRST madden is available to these dudes from day one. They refuse to USE it. They also refuse to learn from their mistakes when blatant flubs from previous versions that should have been patched show up in the game a year later with another number at the end of the title. I don't give these guys any credit for what they do when the basis of football expression, precedural awareness, and A.I. adaptation (things that should be FIRST on the devs list of priorities when the dev 'cycle' begins) are constantly ignored for, I dunno, better looking grass. Yes, the game LOOKS fantastic, but come on people, we ALL know that this game has flaws that leave scratching your head like "Did these dudes NOT see this in the playtest sessions or are they only getting Madden fanboys to playtest this trash?". I used to really think Madden was the top tier, back when there was something to compare it to. Unfortunately in the years since exclusivity has kicked in I find myself comparing it to older games and find that older games do A LOT of things better than Madden 10 in the way of A.I. adaptation and football expression. I've defended this game, and it's Dev staff long enough. I'm not anymore. They need to do better.

[nuckles2k2]

Re: I THINK SOME PPL ARE GOING A LITTLE TOO HARD ON THE DEVS

Great post and I can't disagree with any of it. The game improved dramatically this year and yes it could be better but they simply don't have time to improve everything in one dev cycle. If EA were to take a year or 2 off to revamp everything the game would be epic but they don't want to lose out on a whole season worth of game sales and I don't blame them in that regard since their objective as a company is to make $$. But you cant really blame Ian and his dev team b/c they can only do so much in the time that EA gives them to make the game.

I agree with everything you said except the part about it being EA's fault that Madden doesn't take a year off and revamp that game, that's the NFL's fault. Anytime you have the license to release a video game for a particular league, it's usually the league who sets the tentative release date for the game and you have to abide by that...it's a part of the contract.

That's why you see games for a league that has multiple contracts with multiple companies still come out on or around the same day. You don't see NBA Live come out 2 weeks before NBA 2K, or MLB 2K come out 3 weeks before MLB The Show. Sure those companies would love to dominate the market with their product coming out first, but they can't according to their contract with the respective league they're making a game for. The NFL gives EA the timetable for the release of Madden, not vice versa.

I disagree. They don't have 9 months to work on this stuff, they've had 20+ years. All the source code from the VERY FIRST madden is available to these dudes from day one. They refuse to USE it. They also refuse to learn from their mistakes when blatant flubs from previous versions that should have been patched show up in the game a year later with another number at the end of the title. I don't give these guys any credit for what they do when the basis of football expression, precedural awareness, and A.I. adaptation (things that should be FIRST on the devs list of priorities when the dev 'cycle' begins) are constantly ignored for, I dunno, better looking grass. Yes, the game LOOKS fantastic, but come on people, we ALL know that this game has flaws that leave scratching your head like "Did these dudes NOT see this in the playtest sessions or are they only getting Madden fanboys to playtest this trash?". I used to really think Madden was the top tier, back when there was something to compare it to. Unfortunately in the years since exclusivity has kicked in I find myself comparing it to older games and find that older games do A LOT of things better than Madden 10 in the way of A.I. adaptation and football expression. I've defended this game, and it's Dev staff long enough. I'm not anymore. They need to do better.

Maybe they refuse to use it because the architecture is different for all of those consoles dating back to.... 1993 on the Genesis and the Super Nintendo.... I'm not entirely sure how obsolete video game code for the Genesis or even the PS2 for that matter will aid the modern day Madden games. Maybe you can explain it in detail after making a statement like that, because you seem to know something we don't.

[Valdarez]

Re: I THINK SOME PPL ARE GOING A LITTLE TOO HARD ON THE DEVS

My 2cents is that when they acquired the exclusive license deal is that the business probably didn't invest properly in the franchise, thinking they had it locked and the NFL brand would sell itself, especially since theirs was the only product in town.

Developers really aren't the ones to blame. It's the managers, Directors, VPs, CxOs. Developers only build what they are told to build, which may not necessarily be what they 'want' to build.

If the company doesn't allocate enough resources to build what the Product Manager deems the public wants, then that's the VP's fault for trying to milk their Cash Cow instead of building a better product.

If the game doesn't have the features that the fans want, that's the Product Manager's fault for not gauging the public's interest properly.

If the game doesn't meet the product manager's expectations with regards to features / capabilities, then that's the Director's fault for not having the right skill set of developers available to meet the product requirements or not allocating and properly budgeting enough developers to meet product requirements / deadlines.

I just hope this year Ian only blogs about items that he is sure are 100% in the game, otherwise it defeats the purpose of the blog by incurring resentment when a feature fans were looking forward to doesn't make the final build, or even a patch after it's release.

[Hova57]

Re: I THINK SOME PPL ARE GOING A LITTLE TOO HARD ON THE DEVS

i agree with the OP . and as for the potential out of game if a year or two is taken off. we will see because as it stands now this will be the last madden , if a lockout occurs if a CB is not signed by the end of the 2010 season it could be possible. i don't know what are the contract terms, but i'm sure a game can't come out with the players names if a CB isn't signed. because that would involve revenue right? so we will see we might get a year off of madden next year.
my question was answered here:
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...dden-12-a.html

[lofeazy]

Re: I THINK SOME PPL ARE GOING A LITTLE TOO HARD ON THE DEVS

[QUOTE=nuckles2k2;2040700734]I agree with everything you said except the part about it being EA's fault that Madden doesn't take a year off and revamp that game, that's the NFL's fault. Anytime you have the license to release a video game for a particular league, it's usually the league who sets the tentative release date for the game and you have to abide by that...it's a part of the contract.


I disagree with what your saying because unless you seen the contract how do you know?Remeber Madden came every year expect for 1.That year madden didn't come because it was a bad game.It was 97are98 somebody correct me.

[oneamongthefence]

Re: I THINK SOME PPL ARE GOING A LITTLE TOO HARD ON THE DEVS

Is it Ian or Peter Moore who decides the features of Madden? What goes in and what doesn't.

[TRiCKY_J]

Re: I THINK SOME PPL ARE GOING A LITTLE TOO HARD ON THE DEVS

I disagree. They don't have 9 months to work on this stuff, they've had 20+ years. All the source code from the VERY FIRST madden is available to these dudes from day one. They refuse to USE it. They also refuse to learn from their mistakes when blatant flubs from previous versions that should have been patched show up in the game a year later with another number at the end of the title. I don't give these guys any credit for what they do when the basis of football expression, precedural awareness, and A.I. adaptation (things that should be FIRST on the devs list of priorities when the dev 'cycle' begins) are constantly ignored for, I dunno, better looking grass. Yes, the game LOOKS fantastic, but come on people, we ALL know that this game has flaws that leave scratching your head like "Did these dudes NOT see this in the playtest sessions or are they only getting Madden fanboys to playtest this trash?". I used to really think Madden was the top tier, back when there was something to compare it to. Unfortunately in the years since exclusivity has kicked in I find myself comparing it to older games and find that older games do A LOT of things better than Madden 10 in the way of A.I. adaptation and football expression. I've defended this game, and it's Dev staff long enough. I'm not anymore. They need to do better.

well as far as i understand wasnt madden 09 the first game ian was lead designing? so i mean this guy has to go in and re tool every crappy thing that is hampering the game from past codes and wat not. im not saying madden 10 is perfect, bnut wat im saying is i see alot of ppl bashing these devs, when its not thier fault. can u see improvemnts from 09 tp 10? i sure as hell can. these guys are trying to the best of thier abilies within the given resources. the next gen archetecture is not compareable to the older gens. but i agree in terms of they can use prior gen iterarions in finding out which features worked and didnt work, not necisarily producing code for the a.i. the way i see it is this, the shotty a.i is at least playable correct? i think its below average but has produced fun games. u have to understand these things are the base or the foundation that they are laying down before they continue to add the depth. i trust that madden 11 will be another step in the right direction. dont get me wrong tho i traded my madden in because it was too bare bones for me, but i see the progress.

[TRiCKY_J]

Re: I THINK SOME PPL ARE GOING A LITTLE TOO HARD ON THE DEVS

I agree with everything you said except the part about it being EA's fault that Madden doesn't take a year off and revamp that game, that's the NFL's fault. Anytime you have the license to release a video game for a particular league, it's usually the league who sets the tentative release date for the game and you have to abide by that...it's a part of the contract.

That's why you see games for a league that has multiple contracts with multiple companies still come out on or around the same day. You don't see NBA Live come out 2 weeks before NBA 2K, or MLB 2K come out 3 weeks before MLB The Show. Sure those companies would love to dominate the market with their product coming out first, but they can't according to their contract with the respective league they're making a game for. The NFL gives EA the timetable for the release of Madden, not vice versa.




Maybe they refuse to use it because the architecture is different for all of those consoles dating back to.... 1993 on the Genesis and the Super Nintendo.... I'm not entirely sure how obsolete video game code for the Genesis or even the PS2 for that matter will aid the modern day Madden games. Maybe you can explain it in detail after making a statement like that, because you seem to know something we don't.

well idk if that completely true although ive heard of companies like wallmart ahving a say in the game development not madden but ive heard companies hgave had input in other games so it is possible, but if u remember EA took a year off with the nhl franchise and look how that turned out, i think they won sports game of the year this year and the nhl franchise is considered the best sports game were as be4 it was shotty. ican almost garantee any developer in any game doesnt want to release a crappy game. it all boils down to deadlines ad thier publisher rushing them