where are the franchise updates?

[nuckles2k2]

Re: where are the franchise updates?

Bingo. There's such a repeated pattern of behavior EA has exhibited over the years, even with the Marketing of the game, that it has become so predictable it's not hard to figure out what's going on.

Yet every year, there are people who believe that "this year is different", "it's only (insert month here)", "they've had another year", etc.

Do you REALLY think offline franchise was given more than a cursory addition this year?

Consider:

* Last year, franchise stats were screwed even after a patch that supposedly was to address it. Given that time and resources are given to that which is deemed most important, well, you do the math.

* By EA's own admission, they didn't have time to do everything they wanted to for ONLINE franchise mode in Madden '10.

* In the midst of the "simpler, quicker, deeper" nonsense, what word is put out there? Online. What subject has had nary a word uttered? Offline franchise.

* Peter Moore's vision? Online.

I'm just as surprised and amused that there are still people here who continue to give EA the benefit of the doubt given the overwhelming evidence and history against it.

You forgot to factor in that the teams responsible for the messes made in Madden 06-09 were at the behest of David Ortiz, a guy widely recognized as someone who kind of broke the Madden franchise...and despite having to clean up some mistakes made in the past they still were able to add a few things here and there to try to improve the mode.

Obviously the major one would be the halftime and weekly wrap up shows. But what about adding the half sack and assisted tackle stats? What about their fixing the absurdly broken draft and free agency logic from Madden 09? 30 some odd HAND CREATED draft classes to add in gems and busts to try to emulate the insane art of drafting NFL players. Or how about scaling the overalls so rookies ported over from NCAA didn't come into Madden as a 96 overall?

Yea...Franchise mode gets no attention what so ever. It's EXACTLY the same as Madden 09's Franchise.

Was it perfect? Not even close...but did they work on it and can I acknowledge that? Yep. Do I believe the man that is responsible for Head Coach 09 when he says that they will continue to work on it? Why not?

Oh and by the way, I don't put patches in the same category as working with source code to fix something. Yea they tried to patch the scale so stats would be more in line with real life and it didn't work out. But I also downloaded a patch for NBA 2K10 and all of a sudden I'm seeing Shaq and Tyson Chandler start to throw up 3's and the only way to counteract that is to turn off player roles in Association... and you're pretty much screwed in My Player.

So even the quality games from quality companies can release a patch that doesn't do what it was intended to. That's what can happen when you try to release a file that alters code like that, it may or may not have the effect you intended or it may fix one problem and cause another. That's the world we live in now with console gaming.

[Bgamer90]

Re: where are the franchise updates?

Yeah it's still early but Looman put up a franchise blog 6th april last year.

So do the math... if we haven't heard anything about franchise mode yet and it's April 23rd then the improvements to franchise mode in Madden 11 will more than likely be of what size?

Not saying that it's guaranteed but it's obvious that there's work being done to it...

[stux]

Re: where are the franchise updates?

I don't think anyone is saying they aren't trying to make changes or that the won't make any this year.

It is the fact that Franchise Mode is in no way the focus and hasn't been in like 5 years.

The fact they came into a game in really bad shape isn't an excuse IMO. That simply means they should have flushed in down the toilet and started new.

Yeah, I know they only have one year, yada yada. But if EA just bit the bullet and spend the cash it could get done in one year.

This is there flagship game after all isn't it?

I see no reason why they can't spend extra money one year to get it right instead of hiding behind past mistakes.

[stux]

Re: where are the franchise updates?

So even the quality games from quality companies can release a patch that doesn't do what it was intended to. That's what can happen when you try to release a file that alters code like that, it may or may not have the effect you intended or it may fix one problem and cause another. That's the world we live in now with console gaming.

I believe EA was and has the potential to be again. That statement makes be think you don't think they are?

[nuckles2k2]

Re: where are the franchise updates?

I don't think anyone is saying they aren't trying to make changes or that the won't make any this year.

It is the fact that Franchise Mode is in no way the focus and hasn't been in like 5 years.

The fact they came into a game in really bad shape isn't an excuse IMO. That simply means they should have flushed in down the toilet and started new.

Yeah, I know they only have one year, yada yada. But if EA just bit the bullet and spend the cash it could get done in one year.

This is there flagship game after all isn't it?

I see no reason why they can't spend extra money one year to get it right instead of hiding behind past mistakes.

You're not making much sense though...they don't need to spend money...they need to get the right guys in the right places to have success. And they have that right now. Josh Looman knows what he's doing; Head Coach 09 is incredibly deep and it's a testament to his knowledge of how to create an immerse Franchise experience.

It's just going to take time tho. They added some nice additions last year...now if they fix some of the issues, give us a working IR, and maybe some sort of a calendar and add a negotiation aspect to signing players, you'd have a ridiculous Franchise experience right there. Maybe even let us sign position coaches and be able to promote a position coach to coordinator.

But if they at least fix the issues from last year and make the off-season matter some more, you're good. Remember that Franchise also banks on how immersive the entire package is, which means that they're going to have to make every game feel like it's a part of the season...how do you do that? In game presentation. Which we know is getting an overhaul. That should be a welcome sign to you guys but instead all I see are complaints.

Just take a look at NBA 2K10, why is NBA Today and Association so good in this game? In game commentary and the presentation, and how you feel like the game you're currently playing is one of 82 in a season. It's not all about the pretty overlays and menus all the time.

[Flamehead]

Re: where are the franchise updates?

Yea...Franchise mode gets no attention what so ever. It's EXACTLY the same as Madden 09's Franchise.

Never said it was, hence my word CURSORY. Sure, they'll add or tweak some things to say they worked on it, but as Stux has mentioned repeatedly (which you do not seem to acknowledge), offline franchise is not a priority or point of emphasis, and there is nothing from the release of '10 to this day that infers '11 will be any different. Conversely, online franchise is.

Furthermore, I'm well aware of Ortiz's fingerprints on this gen's iterations. Not an excuse, as offline franchise is no more the PRIORITY now as it was back then. Tweaked, sure. Priority, no. And when '12 comes out, with minor additions and some basic components are not working correctly, what will be the excuses then? Looman and Co. were busy with Team Ultimate?

Oh and by the way, I don't put patches in the same category as working with source code to fix something.

That's fine, but whether source code or patch, stats were still non-working, period. Think about that for a second. The 5th iteration of this gen's consoles had a basic staple of that mode, franchise stats, not working. The 5th. 5.

It is what it is. EA wants the casual gamer. They want the online gamer. The evidence and history for this is overwhelming compared to the evidence to the contrary.

I admire your faith, and it sounds like a very noble thing to give them the benefit of the doubt. But others are realists and EA's pattern of behavior (and meaning of that behavior) has proven to be predictable enough they must earn the faith first.

The proof is in the pudding, and we have no indication it's going to taste any different this year regarding offline franchise.

[Hova57]

Re: where are the franchise updates?

i think looman has been working on franchise stuff since last year working out the stats and stuff. so he could do the ultimate team card thing from jan to april. i think he's done with it now looking at his twitter tweets. His plan from jumpstreet has been to get hc 09 into madden. and for those who played that wasn't gameplan also a part of that game. just chill guys there is alot more info to get out. I'm waiting for franchise info too.

i'm hoping that we can have fan appreciation day and what ever you giveaway is you can see in the stands or create your type of rag and the crowd uses it during playoff games.

[stux]

Re: where are the franchise updates?

You're not making much sense though...they don't need to spend money...they need to get the right guys in the right places to have success. And they have that right now. Josh Looman knows what he's doing; Head Coach 09 is incredibly deep and it's a testament to his knowledge of how to create an immerse Franchise experience.

It's just going to take time tho. They added some nice additions last year...now if they fix some of the issues, give us a working IR, and maybe some sort of a calendar and add a negotiation aspect to signing players, you'd have a ridiculous Franchise experience right there. Maybe even let us sign position coaches and be able to promote a position coach to coordinator.

But if they at least fix the issues from last year and make the off-season matter some more, you're good. Remember that Franchise also banks on how immersive the entire package is, which means that they're going to have to make every game feel like it's a part of the season...how do you do that? In game presentation. Which we know is getting an overhaul. That should be a welcome sign to you guys but instead all I see are complaints.

Just take a look at NBA 2K10, why is NBA Today and Association so good in this game? In game commentary and the presentation, and how you feel like the game you're currently playing is one of 82 in a season. It's not all about the pretty overlays and menus all the time.

If you think Josh knows what he is doing then there is no reason that can't bring in more good programs and have him lead a crew. There are PLENTY of good ones out there in this economy.

If he really knows what he is doing there is no reason he can't direct a crew of people to help him.

It is like saying we have this one good carpenter lets wait 5 years for him to build our house instead of hiring a bunch of other carpenters and having that one manage the other to get the house built in 6 months.

There is no reason they can't bring in other good ones and have him direct them unless they don't know how to hire competent employees or don't want to spend the money.

Five years has been enough waiting for a good Franchise Mode and is more then patient IMO. I know they haven't been there that long but guess what EA has and they are the ones running the show or other companies would have a chance.

[SA1NT401]

Re: where are the franchise updates?

we are about a MONTH away from any solid info on franchise....Its been like this for years.

NEVER get that info this early...Be patient.

[nuckles2k2]

Re: where are the franchise updates?

Never said it was, hence my word CURSORY. Sure, they'll add or tweak some things to say they worked on it, but as Stux has mentioned repeatedly (which you do not seem to acknowledge), offline franchise is not a priority or point of emphasis, and there is nothing from the release of '10 to this day that infers '11 will be any different. Conversely, online franchise is.

Furthermore, I'm well aware of Ortiz's fingerprints on this gen's iterations. Not an excuse, as offline franchise is no more the PRIORITY now as it was back then. Tweaked, sure. Priority, no. And when '12 comes out, with minor additions and some basic components are not working correctly, what will be the excuses then? Looman and Co. were busy with Team Ultimate?



That's fine, but whether source code or patch, stats were still non-working, period. Think about that for a second. The 5th iteration of this gen's consoles had a basic staple of that mode, franchise stats, not working. The 5th. 5.

It is what it is. EA wants the casual gamer. They want the online gamer. The evidence and history for this is overwhelming compared to the evidence to the contrary.

I admire your faith, and it sounds like a very noble thing to give them the benefit of the doubt. But others are realists and EA's pattern of behavior (and meaning of that behavior) has proven to be predictable enough they must earn the faith first.

The proof is in the pudding, and we have no indication it's going to taste any different this year regarding offline franchise.

Ok so the pass TD vs rush TD scale in the sim engine was off a little bit and their attempt to fix it didn't pan out. You keep naming one thing though...they fixed one of the most outrageous issues you can have in any franchise game and that's draft/free agency/trade logic, they sat down and hand made 30 some odd draft classes, and they added two stats to the game that the public has been asking for. And they fixed the import issue for NCAA.

How is that cursory? The amount of time that it would take to do those things right there is the exact opposite of cursory.

No I don't believe Franchise will be a back of the box selling point, but how is that equal to the team that works on franchise.....not working on franchise? Where did the Ultimate Team thing come from? Just trying to make a point or do you have some info that we don't have? Looman, as far as we all know, is the head of the franchise development.

You guys are acting as if you don't understand that there is a whole department between the devs and the community right now. The marketing department is focused on what will make the game appealing to the kids who can convince their parents to buy the game and the casual gamer/football fan, because those are the people who won't just appreciate a solid sim game (which I believe is what Ian is trying to create.)

You're coming after me and just throwing things out there as if you're making some sort of point but it doesn't seem like you're connecting anything. David Ortiz: Madden 06 through portions of 09. Stagnant Franchise, stale arcadey game with tons of issues. Ian Cummings: Madden 10; cleaning up old issues from Madden 06 through 09, improvement in gameplay, game seems to have more of a simulation focus, Franchise had 3 huge improvements that were a long time coming (logic, busts in the first round of the draft and gems hidden throughout the rest of it, and stats that we wanted added are now there) of course there is more work to do...but we've had more additions to Madden 10's Franchise mode than the previous 4 games combined....how is that cursory?

And I didn't even count the halftime show or weekly wrap up there.

If they fix the issues from Madden 10's franchise and add 4 more new additions would you be happy?

All they really need is a working IR, make the user more involved in the off-season (preferably by scouting and contract negotiations), and have contextual in game commentary about what's going on in the season disbursed throughout franchise games to make it feel like that game is part of a season and not an exhibition game.

It's not like the mode needs a brand new overhaul. And now that they have the right pieces in place, chances are we will see some more improvements....it just won't be the focal point of the completely different group of people in the marketing team...who may or may not even be located in the same building as Ian and his people.

[nuckles2k2]

Re: where are the franchise updates?

I'll condense my main point one more time.

The Marketing department...wants to attract as many people to the game as possible. So that means the little kids who will react to the flashy "cool" stuff to get mommy or daddy to buy the game. And it also includes the people who might sit down one Sunday and channel surf until they come across an NFL game, see an amazing play, and want to buy Madden solely to try to recreate that...knowing nothing about the sport. Marketing departments have to tell these folks that they WANT to by Madden, make them think they're missing out on something amazing if they don't.

That marketing department tells Ian and his people what they can and can't talk about at certain points during the year. If they want to get a certain message across then that's what we get. Doesn't mean that there isn't work being done on the mode. And the addition of several things that we asked for shows you that someone IS listening.

Like I said in my previous post, Madden 10's Franchise mode had more additions than the previous 4 years combined, and it also fixed a few problems from last year's as well.

[Flamehead]

Re: where are the franchise updates?

Ok so the pass TD vs rush TD scale in the sim engine was off a little bit and their attempt to fix it didn't pan out. You keep naming one thing though...they fixed one of the most outrageous issues you can have in any franchise game and that's draft/free agency/trade logic, they sat down and hand made 30 some odd draft classes, and they added two stats to the game that the public has been asking for. And they fixed the import issue for NCAA.

How is that cursory? The amount of time that it would take to do those things right there is the exact opposite of cursory.

No I don't believe Franchise will be a back of the box selling point, but how is that equal to the team that works on franchise.....not working on franchise? Where did the Ultimate Team thing come from? Just trying to make a point or do you have some info that we don't have? Looman, as far as we all know, is the head of the franchise development.

You guys are acting as if you don't understand that there is a whole department between the devs and the community right now. The marketing department is focused on what will make the game appealing to the kids who can convince their parents to buy the game and the casual gamer/football fan, because those are the people who won't just appreciate a solid sim game (which I believe is what Ian is trying to create.)

You're coming after me and just throwing things out there as if you're making some sort of point but it doesn't seem like you're connecting anything. David Ortiz: Madden 06 through portions of 09. Stagnant Franchise, stale arcadey game with tons of issues. Ian Cummings: Madden 10; cleaning up old issues from Madden 06 through 09, improvement in gameplay, game seems to have more of a simulation focus, Franchise had 3 huge improvements that were a long time coming (logic, busts in the first round of the draft and gems hidden throughout the rest of it, and stats that we wanted added are now there) of course there is more work to do...but we've had more additions to Madden 10's Franchise mode than the previous 4 games combined....how is that cursory?

And I didn't even count the halftime show or weekly wrap up there.

If they fix the issues from Madden 10's franchise and add 4 more new additions would you be happy?

All they really need is a working IR, make the user more involved in the off-season (preferably by scouting and contract negotiations), and have contextual in game commentary about what's going on in the season disbursed throughout franchise games to make it feel like that game is part of a season and not an exhibition game.

It's not like the mode needs a brand new overhaul. And now that they have the right pieces in place, chances are we will see some more improvements....it just won't be the focal point of the completely different group of people in the marketing team...who may or may not even be located in the same building as Ian and his people.

Hmm, where to begin.

I first quoted Stux and added my own thoughts to his comments. You then addressed me directly, and I then back to you regarding two of your points to me (Ortiz and stats), so I'm not sure where the "you're coming after me" thing is coming from.

It's a given that you and I are coming from different perspectives. I understand your point - I just don't agree with it, regardless of how many hairs you want to split. The stats? That was one example, not the sum of my argument.

The fixes they DID make (as another example)? Yes, no disagreement there. Did they add some other things? Absolutely. Again, you seem to think I'm disagreeing with you there. Not so.

Where we DO part company, apparently, is what constitutes “emphasis”. It was good they fixed some of the things they did, but after 5 years, those things should have been a given, not a reason to pat them on the back. Have our expectations really gotten that low?

I understand your point that they should be recognized for the for the fixes they did make; I can’t believe after 5 years some of these fixes are still having to be made, and wonder where we’d be today if franchise was given priority.

And for that reason, when I hear what they are emphasizing online this, casual that after 5 years, yes, I call what they have been doing (and probably will do) cursory.

I can’t say it any plainer: I’m not saying they’re not working on franchise. I’m saying they aren’t giving it the same priority as other features. Your responses to my comments lead me to believe you are hearing and debating something I’m not saying.

[Flamehead]

Re: where are the franchise updates?

I'll condense my main point one more time.

The Marketing department...wants to attract as many people to the game as possible. So that means the little kids who will react to the flashy "cool" stuff to get mommy or daddy to buy the game. And it also includes the people who might sit down one Sunday and channel surf until they come across an NFL game, see an amazing play, and want to buy Madden solely to try to recreate that...knowing nothing about the sport. Marketing departments have to tell these folks that they WANT to by Madden, make them think they're missing out on something amazing if they don't.

That marketing department tells Ian and his people what they can and can't talk about at certain points during the year. If they want to get a certain message across then that's what we get. Doesn't mean that there isn't work being done on the mode. And the addition of several things that we asked for shows you that someone IS listening.

Like I said in my previous post, Madden 10's Franchise mode had more additions than the previous 4 years combined, and it also fixed a few problems from last year's as well.

Marketing departments will hype anything they can (trust me, I've worked in one). If something substantial were being added, EA would love nothing more than to wet our appetites with even a simple three word blurb that hinted at a more robust franchise mode.

[PantherBeast_OS]

Re: where are the franchise updates?

If you think Josh knows what he is doing then there is no reason that can't bring in more good programs and have him lead a crew. There are PLENTY of good ones out there in this economy.

If he really knows what he is doing there is no reason he can't direct a crew of people to help him.

It is like saying we have this one good carpenter lets wait 5 years for him to build our house instead of hiring a bunch of other carpenters and having that one manage the other to get the house built in 6 months.

There is no reason they can't bring in other good ones and have him direct them unless they don't know how to hire competent employees or don't want to spend the money.

Five years has been enough waiting for a good Franchise Mode and is more then patient IMO. I know they haven't been there that long but guess what EA has and they are the ones running the show or other companies would have a chance.

Hmm the reason they can't bring in more people to help Josh Looman out is because they have been cutting back on staff already. EA has been lossing money for the past 3 years now. There is no way they can afford more staff member right now. If they could they would. I'm sure Josh and his small crew is doing fine on franchsie mode both offline and online. No need to worry so much my friend.

[Favre4]

Re: where are the franchise updates?

Listen Up.

Franchise needs enough work that it should be the one getting first day publicity if they are going to make the kinds of strides necessary for it to compete with games like the show or NBA 2k series.

they will do just enough to get by once again.