Illogical.

[mikealltogether]

I'll keep this short and sweet, as I've already stated my displeasure previously with regards to EA's announcement on franchise mode. I must, however, point out the complete lack of logic in Phil Frazier's blog. It'll be quick, so just give this a look.

From the blog (emphasis added):

To re-write Franchise mode to take full advantage of the PS3 and Xbox 360 would take well over a year to do, which is why we’ve taken the approach we have up until now. With that in mind, we made the decision to focus this year’s development on making the core areas of Madden NFL better...

We feel great about where we’ve taken the foundation of Madden NFL and are ready to refocus on building Franchise and SuperStar from the ground up. We have already assembled a team fully dedicated on setting the vision for what Franchise and SuperStar modes can and should be in the future.

Since we are starting with a clean canvas heading into Madden NFL 12, we want the community to help us shape our direction- starting NOW. Let us know what you’d like to see in Madden career modes in the future. We’re not just looking for small add-ons either. We want your big ideas. What would revolutionize career modes in your opinion?

• The team has, so far, been assembled to focus on the vision for the future franchise mode. They are looking for input on the future vision. When starting a project like this, you plan out all of the details and then build the plan.

• Logically, you'd have to assume they have not begun to build the mode since the team has been developed to set a vision right now. If they have started building the mode, they already have a plan in place and aren't actually looking for ideas.

• If they have started building the mode and are still fishing for ideas, they are going to run into the same problem as trying to build onto the franchise mode that's already in place. This would speak very large volumes about the project management of their team.

• Assuming they are looking for ideas now and are going to build the mode for Madden 12 with those ideas, they are either not going to finish by Madden 12 or Phil lied in the first quote about the mode taking well over a year to develop.

• If they do take the ideas in now, and build it with all of those ideas incorporated, and it does make it in Madden 12, then you have to wonder why they didn't do this sooner, as they will have essentially made it in one cycle. We already know from previous comments from Ian that they begin working on the next version before the previous ships.

Sorry, it has just bothered me since I first read it, and thought I'd throw it out there. This has very little speculation in it... it's all in the words they gave us.

[spacefunk]

Re: Illogical.

Maybe they already know what they're gonna do and are just humoring the fans who whine and whine and whine and whine and whine and.....it goes on like this.

[Senator Palmer]

Re: Illogical.

There's a lot about the way that blog was carefully worded that bothered me and left them some wiggle room.

[Outkizast]

Re: Illogical.

There's a lot about the way that blog was carefully worded that bothered me and left them some wiggle room.

I agree... And can bet we won't have our new and improved franchise mode until at least Madden 13. Hopefully they can pull out some other cool gimmicks like Gameflow for Madden 12...

On a side note: I actually DO love that they have varying sock lengths this year, IMO it does add some authenticity.

[GiantBlue76]

Re: Illogical.

More lip service from this team. I'm amazed at how everyone believes it. What's even more frustrating is that they actually think the gameplay is "fixed" and is good. It still looks like garbage. There are still lots of issues. So now they will take the mindset that gameplay is all done, now all we have to do is focus on franchise mode. So there will be an incomplete franchise mode next year with a whole bunch of promises of what's coming "in the future". Yeah sure, just like Madden 10's online franchise, just like the adaptive AI, just like the real pocket, just like improved penalties and player interaction, just like pro tak, just like a working and realistic challenge system. They need to just do themselves and all of us a favor. Discontinue all of the community interaction, stop posting blogs and shut up until the game ships.

[Hooe]

Re: Illogical.

I'm not sure you realize just how much planning is involved in software development before programmers even write a single line of code. Particularly in applications of this magnitude and size, planning is paramount to being able to meet deadlines and write functioning code correctly.

[GiantBlue76]

Re: Illogical.

I'm not sure you realize just how much planning is involved in software development before programmers even write a single line of code. Particularly in applications of this magnitude and size, planning is paramount to being able to meet deadlines and write functioning code correctly.

Actually I do. I'm a software engineer.

[Outkizast]

Re: Illogical.

I'm not sure you realize just how much planning is involved in software development before programmers even write a single line of code. Particularly in applications of this magnitude and size, planning is paramount to being able to meet deadlines and write functioning code correctly.

To me, it doesn't seem like they are planning very well... Things will never be "perfect", so it makes no sense to spend an ENTIRE year on one aspect of the game. Because even after this year, gameplay will not be perfect and will have to be tweaked each year. Which is why it would be smart to plan on improving more aspects of the game each year to make it better as a whole. To me, focusing solely on gameplay is great, but we'll see how it all comes together.. because if it's not PERFECT, then people will and SHOULD be very disappointed in the "plan" they chose for this year..

[Hooe]

Re: Illogical.

Actually I do. I'm a software engineer.

So you should be able to appreciate the process that is planning out the game, UML-diagramming all the classes of the project so that it's known exactly what's needed to complete the project, writing code in two-weeks cycles assuming EA follows the agile philosophy, the tedious process that is code debugging, the tedious process that is quality assurance, and the time each of these tasks take, no?

Doing something as large-scale as a video game franchise mode, which has to be designed to work and work well given nondeterministic operation by the user over a period of 30-or-so video game years of player progression, offseason roster moves, season simulations drafts, etc., is no easy task, and one that should not be taken lightly.

[sois]

Re: Illogical.

So you should be able to appreciate the process that is planning out the game, UML-diagramming all the classes of the project so that it's known exactly what's needed to complete the project, writing code in two-weeks cycles assuming EA follows the agile philosophy, the tedious process that is code debugging, the tedious process that is quality assurance, and the time each of these tasks take, no?

Doing something as large-scale as a video game franchise mode, which has to be designed to work and work well given nondeterministic operation by the user over a period of 30-or-so video game years of player progression, offseason roster moves, season simulations drafts, etc., is no easy task, and one that should not be taken lightly.

Other games with far less budget have done it and done it much better. There is no excuse.

[GiantBlue76]

Re: Illogical.

So you should be able to appreciate the process that is planning out the game, UML-diagramming all the classes of the project so that it's known exactly what's needed to complete the project, writing code in two-weeks cycles assuming EA follows the agile philosophy, the tedious process that is code debugging, the tedious process that is quality assurance, and the time each of these tasks take, no?

Doing something as large-scale as a video game franchise mode, which has to be designed to work and work well given nondeterministic operation by the user over a period of 30-or-so video game years of player progression, offseason roster moves, season simulations drafts, etc., is no easy task, and one that should not be taken lightly.

You make it sound like they started from scratch and had to implement this from the beginning. They are working with years of code here. There is no excuse for the 6 year old bugs, there is no excuse for the lack of enhancements. We get sideline catches every year, blocking enhanced every year, better animations every year... Really? Where is it? Still looks like crap with the animations. Player interaction is still poor, presentation is non existent, challenge system still broken, missing tons of penalties, no progressive lighting, incomplete online franchise, crappy web interface for leagues that doesn't work right. The list goes on. However, since we have gameflow, madden coins, and boostables to purchase we should all be happy. Give me a break.

I work on a very large enterprise software product. We wouldn't be in business if we had the same bugs and broken features for 6 years. Oh yeah, and that "other" game that is 6 years old now had all of the things I listed and did all of them extremely well. The more excuses you provide to this team, the more you are supporting the below average crap we get each year. People say I have an agenda. They're right. As a consumer I'm tired of having to play this garbage every year. I want them to step up to the plate and deliver something that is worth the money they charge. It has to be AT LEAST as good as the "other" game, but it should be 10x better at this point. Football gaming is a disaster now. We're all missing out simply because Tiburon has no real incentive. Many of us are passionate about football and love playing football games. I have nothing against the Madden brand. I bought every Madden from 1988 to 2001. That's when 2k hit the street and it showed me how good football games really can be. Madden 2005 was an excellent game. Far better than anything they have today. It's not about hating EA, it's about demanding much higher quality. Leaders and innovators make magic happen, they don't give excuses. They get it done and they don't take 2 years to implement something that should take 6 months. How can I get excited about sideline catches (which were done already 6 years ago very well) and a new animation system? How many animations systems are we going to get before they have anything that looks real? There's a video I posted in another thread of a certain prod lead touting all of the new things in Madden 08. All of the stuff that was supposedly fixed. A new animation system, blocking all of that. 3 years later and they are still saying the same thing. I'm amazed that so many people on here are willing to throw their 65 dollars over the wall for something that is sub par.

Just like most of the guys on here, I gave the Madden team the benefit of the doubt. I waited and waited for a good Madden and after being disappointed for 5 straight years enough is enough. Either up the ante on your game ten fold, or get out of the way, free up the license and let someone who knows what they are doing build the game.

[Hooe]

Re: Illogical.

The more excuses you provide to this team, the more you are supporting the below average crap we get each year.

Their "crap" is obviously not below average given the review scores their game consistently garners and the amount it consistently sells. They're obviously doing something right.

Further, in my opinion, Madden 10 was a great game, and Madden 11 is shaping up to follow suit. People are overreacting due to EA's admission of minimal franchise mode changes and completely ignoring and/or underestimating the effect that the additions of Gameflow, redone run blocking logic, and a new locomotion engine will add. In fact, people are praising NCAA 11 for the way it moves and feels (due to a similar new locomotion engine and new take on run blocking), but turning right around and bashing it in Madden. Quite the double standard.

[R9NALD9]

Re: Illogical.

Their "crap" is obviously not below average given the review scores their game consistently garners and the amount it consistently sells. They're obviously doing something right.

Further, in my opinion, Madden 10 was a great game, and Madden 11 is shaping up to follow suit. People are overreacting due to EA's admission of minimal franchise mode changes and completely ignoring and/or underestimating the effect that the additions of Gameflow, redone run blocking logic, and a new locomotion engine will add. In fact, people are praising NCAA 11 for the way it moves and feels (due to a similar new locomotion engine and new take on run blocking), but turning right around and bashing it in Madden. Quite the double standard.

you can't be serious? I really hope that you don't take all the reviews on IGN, gamespot etc. serious...it's all paid for man! Why do you think GTA IV got full scores everywhere while it was not even close quality wise to GTA San Andreas.

The major sites are being paid for good scores on major releases...it's just business! Developers know that casual gamers will buy the games with higher scores, so they invest in high review scores and get higher sales in return.

Furthermore, yes there is some additions and enhancements, but not enought to justify $60.
It seems they even took out the halftime shows...WTF?

In Madden 09 they had those outside shots of the stadiums...but then the next year removed them completely...what a waste....it's logical to me to have the following...outside shot of stadium...commentator says: "welcome to blah blah...talking about the match etc. and then it switches to the locker room shots or something. That was a great presentation opportunity gone begging.

They are making improvements...but if you look at the number and scale of improvements other sports games are making within a year it really puts Triburon to shame.

[JkA3]

Re: Illogical.

We never know what we are truly gonna get from year to year. Also, the Madden Heads are not the main focus, although the main consumer (in terms of loyalty year to year). There's a lot of room for competition in the football arena- its too bad that the only real competitor is NCAA Football. Backbreaker isn't even close to being competition.

[rooney8]

Re: Illogical.

We never know what we are truly gonna get from year to year. Also, the Madden Heads are not the main focus, although the main consumer (in terms of loyalty year to year). There's a lot of room for competition in the football arena- its too bad that the only real competitor is NCAA Football. Backbreaker isn't even close to being competition.

I hate to admit it but no arguement there. Hopefully in a couple of years. Sigh.