Kickoff Returns: Too Easy, Too Hard, Just Right?

[nld230]

Figured I'd kick this off, as I think it might be an issue judging from some impressions. Here are the numbers, if we are aiming for realism:

The BEST:
AVG Return: 26.2 yards/return (Baltimore, TB)
TD: 3 (Cleveland)


The WORST
AVG Return: 18.2 (Oakland)
TD: 0 (18 teams)

The Mean? It's pretty easy to see

AVG Return: 22.6
TDs, somewhere between 0 and 1.

I saw many people complaining that kickoffs were too hard in the demo. And I've also read complaints that the retail kickoffs were too easy.

Those numbers are what it SHOULD be, just for a point of reference.

Sometimes you have to sit back. I'm sure some fans think, "Wow! Josh Cribbs! He should be able to return lots of kicks for touchdowns." And after two or three games of nothing, they declare the kickoff returns broken.

If we want realism, please understand that even the best returner doesn't take one back all that often.

[jyoung]

Re: Kickoff Returns: Too Easy, Too Hard, Just Right?

Too easy:

1) run to the middle of the field

2) break outside at the last second

3) sprint down the sidelines for an easy TD

[WilsonFisk]

Re: Kickoff Returns: Too Easy, Too Hard, Just Right?

I just lost a game where the guy returned a 99 yard TD with 20 seconds left

He was untouched. Made one move and was gone....idk if its too easy...but it sure was on that one lol

[Boregard]

Re: Kickoff Returns: Too Easy, Too Hard, Just Right?

My biggest problem with returns is that the blocking seems dependent on the returners KR rating which is just stupid!!!

This is a prime example of where the SP Teams coach should have an impact on the game-play. Do you hire a ST Coach who is great at developing Ks, Ps or do you hire a guy known for coaching up return teams, or some dude who is pretty good, but not great all around.

Another thing, a players KR rating should not ever be higher than his SPD, AGI, ACC, BCV, CAR and ELU ratings averaged out with his speed counted 4 times. Punt returns should add CIT in twice because often PR is more diffiult than KR - in fact some really good KRs suck at PRs. Let's say you have a guy rated 90 in all those attributes - then his max KR rating is 90, A guy with 4.5 speed - somewhere in the low 80s according to Madden should never be lined up to return kicks - just does not happen in the NFL but in Madden the ratings allow players that slow to not only be returners, but sims them 90+ yard returns for TDs - not really going to see that in the NFL!!!

By the way, the retrun game (KOs) in M10 were tooooooo easy, sounds like (I have not played it yet) that M11 is much more realistic in that department.

Punt returns were hit or miss in M10 and I thought it was well done, maybe some frustration on occasion because of completely idiotic missed blocks but overall it was fairly balanced!

The thing that aggravates me most is that Madden, has always - even in M10 - shortchanged you statistically on returns - You actually field the ball at the 20 and return it 15 yrds to the 35, but the stats (and even the commentators would say "fielded at the") 23 to 24 and thus rip you off for 3-4 yards per return!!!

[PantherBeast_OS]

Re: Kickoff Returns: Too Easy, Too Hard, Just Right?

I think I remember during Shopmaster Live stream just a week ago he said that the return blocking could use a little more tuning. My opinion right now is a little foggy since I did mange in the demo take the kickoff return back for a TD. Avg field postion in demo for me for kickoff was about 30 yard line which seems about where it is in the real NFL. But the punt return blocking is what needs to be tuned a little bit to make it better.

[mvpatriot]

Re: Kickoff Returns: Too Easy, Too Hard, Just Right?

horrible, needs to be tweaked to allow more return yrds and chances

[RGiles36]

Re: Kickoff Returns: Too Easy, Too Hard, Just Right?

It's tough for sure, but it's rewarding when you do actually get some good yardage. Heh...

[phillysouljah]

Re: Kickoff Returns: Too Easy, Too Hard, Just Right?

Kick returns in Madden 10 were a joke. I played a Browns franchise (on All-Madden) and Cribbs missed several games with an injury yet he finished the season with 7 return TD's which is absurd (he even had two in one game!).

Playing the Madden 11 demo on both All-Pro and All-Madden, it's a little tougher but I'm not sure about the capability of either the Jets or Colts return-men. It is still pretty easy though with a return TD every second game or so.

This needs to be addressed. It is absurd that you can average 35 yards per return and have so many taken all the way for TD's.

And people are complaining that it is too hard? I just don't get that one. Are we all playing the same game here?

[stopper654]

Re: Kickoff Returns: Too Easy, Too Hard, Just Right?

It's hard when you're playing on all madden against the CPU but I played a game online and carried back a punt return with desean and a kickoff return with maclin in the same game since online difficulty is all pro.

[kwabalicious]

Re: Kickoff Returns: Too Easy, Too Hard, Just Right?

I was averaging like 18 yards a return in the demo. I could never get a kick past the 26 yard line. I was sooo excited when I started up the middle, and bounced it outside and advanced to my own 32 yard line, but I never got there again.

[rsoxguy12]

Re: Kickoff Returns: Too Easy, Too Hard, Just Right?

Madden 10 kick returns were ridiculously easy. It got to the point where I would use my 3rd fastest player because I was scoring them too often, and even then, sometimes I would run out of bounds on purpose because I just wanted to play offense.
Madden 11 is tough, but realistic and I like it. It's rewarding to get to the 35-40 yard line, as it should be!

[PantherBeast_OS]

Re: Kickoff Returns: Too Easy, Too Hard, Just Right?

It's tough for sure, but it's rewarding when you do actually get some good yardage. Heh...

Very true about that bro. I only had one kick return go for a TD in all the games I played on the demo. So yes it is rewarding indeed my friend.

[Exonerated]

Re: Kickoff Returns: Too Easy, Too Hard, Just Right?

thecolts get to the 18 in real life lol...

[MattRobinson17]

Re: Kickoff Returns: Too Easy, Too Hard, Just Right?

Madden 11 is tough, but realistic and I like it. It's rewarding to get to the 35-40 yard line, as it should be!

I agree, most returns I barely get back to the 20. but every once in a while I get one back to the 35-40....

[jf28]

Re: Kickoff Returns: Too Easy, Too Hard, Just Right?

My biggest problem with returns is that the blocking seems dependent on the returners KR rating which is just stupid!!!

This is a prime example of where the SP Teams coach should have an impact on the game-play. Do you hire a ST Coach who is great at developing Ks, Ps or do you hire a guy known for coaching up return teams, or some dude who is pretty good, but not great all around.

Another thing, a players KR rating should not ever be higher than his SPD, AGI, ACC, BCV, CAR and ELU ratings averaged out with his speed counted 4 times. Punt returns should add CIT in twice because often PR is more diffiult than KR - in fact some really good KRs suck at PRs. Let's say you have a guy rated 90 in all those attributes - then his max KR rating is 90, A guy with 4.5 speed - somewhere in the low 80s according to Madden should never be lined up to return kicks - just does not happen in the NFL but in Madden the ratings allow players that slow to not only be returners, but sims them 90+ yard returns for TDs - not really going to see that in the NFL!!!

By the way, the retrun game (KOs) in M10 were tooooooo easy, sounds like (I have not played it yet) that M11 is much more realistic in that department.

Punt returns were hit or miss in M10 and I thought it was well done, maybe some frustration on occasion because of completely idiotic missed blocks but overall it was fairly balanced!

The thing that aggravates me most is that Madden, has always - even in M10 - shortchanged you statistically on returns - You actually field the ball at the 20 and return it 15 yrds to the 35, but the stats (and even the commentators would say "fielded at the") 23 to 24 and thus rip you off for 3-4 yards per return!!!

Only thing I'd change in this is that there should also be a KR rating unique to the other KR ratings, basically measuring the general ability to follow the blocks and the play on a KR (basically awareness, but it's awareness as a kick returner). But you're right, the rating on the depth chart should incorporate what you said, with the KR awareness rating I said IMO.

And in addition to good returners, we need in general realistic special teams. Guys keeping lane integrity, gunners on punts being blocked properly and general realistic gunner/blocker interaction, not having the safety at the line run backwards when no one is rushing on a max cover punt, more plays (maybe an extremely difficult to accomplish surprise onside kick), more accurate plays (the Jets ran multiple fake punt plays last year that aren't in the game, as did the Titans), and the CPU not knowing what you're doing (they ONLY don't pick FG block when you're faking the FG, whenever you kick the FG they pick FG block).


Basically, if it's in the game, it should be in the game, they have never made special teams realistic in the last two decades (instead of making it realistic, they just decided to make Hester a beast with his 100 speed and not address the fact that he also got amazing blocking and ran good schemes).