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Is Madden dying?

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  • #1
    GAV
    Banned
    • Oct 2010
    • 49

    Is Madden dying?


    I believe that it is dying a slow death. I'm a serious Madden player who has been playing since Madden came out on the Ps2. Back then, everyone bought Madden and played it all year long. Now, much less people buy the game and even less people play it all year long. The reason I believe it is dying is because of fear of glitches and exploits. It has bred a mindset to always go with the simple fix; rather than moving the game forward, the developers deal with problems in flawed unrealistic ways. One of the biggest perceived problems by many players is players using unrealistic quarter and dime defenses to match big offensive sets to run down the run, but if the blocking scheme worked realistically - this wouldn't be an issue. Right now, a DB can take on a 300 LB offensive lineman and will simply get blocked when in reality, if the 300 LB offensive lineman can get into the DB - that lineman will blow him up and move on. In the real NFL, very few LBs can take on O-lineman without giving ground. Adding realism to the blocking would go a long way in building the brand. The way that it will probably be "fixed" is to not allow players to audible from smaller defenses (like quarter and dime) to bigger defenses, like 3-4, 4-3, or 4-6. The 2nd fix is easier, but it doesn't add to the depth or realism of the game. Each installment of Madden needs to blow our minds in order for the brand to thrive like it has in the past. The way to make it right is to revamp the blocking system so players can win or lose in that battle - meaning great blockers will take out smaller defenders and move to block another defender - while smaller, weaker blockers will also get beaten easily by stronger defenders. If this is implemented, it will no longer be advantageous to have a WR at FB in running situations as the WR won't be able to hold up in the run game. It will bring the game to new depths of realism.

    I find it funny when players rip Madden 11 and then talk about how ideally wonderful NBA 2K11 is. I find it funny because NBA 2K11 is a tremendously flawed game. In NBA 2K11, an offensive player can just dribble the ball directly in front of a defender who is actively trying to steal the ball without making any attempt to protect the ball - and the defender still won't steal it quickly. The reason 2K seems to get a pass is because its a newer game to most players and that makes players more forgiving. Stop with how great 2K is. It's flawed too. The topics seem relatively unrelated, but its something that's irked me. <End Rant>


    The way to save the Madden franchise from a slow death is to blow players minds. The only way to do that is to add new levels of depth and realism with each installment. Fixing the blocking would make the game exponentially more realistic. Adding gameplay depth is easy as well. First of all, scrap the defensive assist. Make A (or X for Ps3) the defensive break down button. Users should hit it half as early as they would to hitstick - meaning the breakdown isn't immediate, but it does setup fast. After the breakdown, at impact - users have a few choices. They can move the L stick to a side to try to ride ballcarrier to other defenders or out of bounds. Hitting down tries to fight the ballcarrier back. Holding up uses the safe route and just rides the ballcarrier down, which is a good choice in one-on-one situations and in a mismatch. Hitting A (or X on Ps3) again wraps the legs. It's a good option if the player isn't moving at full speed. Hitting Y (or triangle on Ps3) goes up high, which is good for setting up gang tackles - to possibly go after the ball to force turnovers. Knowing the personnel is key, as you don't want to try to power tackle a big RB with a CB. You wouldn't need to use the break down button to hitstick, but you can use it to recover from a missed hitstick if the ballcarrier doesn't make space right away.

    Fix the blocking and tackling and everything else will fall into place. These enhancements would bring the game to new heaights in terms of depth and realism - and would blow our minds again.

    With the impending NFL lockout hanging over Madden 2012, the Madden community needs the best game that EA can put together in order to survive and get back to the success enjoyed in the past.
    ---
    Here's what I want added...

    I want bigger blockers to knock down smaller defenders and to move on to block other defenders. I want bigger defenders to blow up smaller blockers so they can make big plays. It would establish more realism in balance within the game.

    I also want a deeper tackling system implemented. Here's what I would like to see...

    Scrap the defensive assist button. Replace it with a break down button for a new tackling system. The break down button need to be pressed before tackling without a hitstick. It takes about half the time that a hitstick does and offers increased agility over a yard to a yard and a half of ground (depending upon who the defender is).

    Break Down Button - A
    L Stick Left or Right - ride ballcarrier to a side
    L Stick Down - fight ballcarrier back
    L Stick Up - ride ballcarrier down
    A Button again - wrap legs
    Y Button - hold ballcarrier up (good for gang tackling)

    If you miss a hitstick, you can still access the break down animations as long as the ballcarrier doesn't immediately create space between him and the defender.

    Any feedback would be appreciated.
  • #2
    roadman
    *ll St*r
    • Aug 2003
    • 26339

    Re: Is Madden dying?


    Re: Is Madden dying?

    Madden is, threads aren't.

    http://www.operationsports.com/forum...each-year.html

    Comment

    • #3
      rooney8
      Pro
      • Jul 2009
      • 823

      Re: Is Madden dying?


      Re: Is Madden dying?

      No Madden is not dying. Could it be killed if competition opened up? The video game football market is pretty big so probably not.
      Vote Yes to option to hide player rating


      Comment

      • #4
        kjcheezhead
        MVP
        • May 2009
        • 3118

        Re: Is Madden dying?


        Re: Is Madden dying?

        Originally posted by GAV
        Fix the blocking and tackling and everything else will fall into place. These enhancements would bring the game to new heaights in terms of depth and realism - and would blow our minds again.

        One problem with this theory. Madden 10 featured an all new tackling system called pro-tak. One of Madden 11s biggest features the fans say makes 10 obsolete is the new and improved run blocking.

        Either the Madden team failed to deliver the level of improvements you wanted to see, or the game is lacking in other areas.

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        • #5
          Segagendude
          Banned
          • Aug 2008
          • 7940

          Re: Is Madden dying?


          Re: Is Madden dying?

          Madden was "critically injured" in 06 on next-gen. It's been on life support since. Even though I liked 10, it's still not feeling like a nex-gen game, minus the graphics.
          Last edited by Segagendude; 10-31-2010, 01:07 PM.

          Comment

          • #6
            ThaShark28_316
            Pro
            • Apr 2008
            • 692

            Re: Is Madden dying?


            Re: Is Madden dying?

            Originally posted by Segagendude
            Madden was "critically injured" in 06 on next-gen. It's been on life support since. Even though I liked 10, it's still not feeling like a nex-gen game, minus the graphics.
            The old regime (Madden NFL 06-08) got off to a very slow start. They've been in quicksand ever since.

            Will they get out of it? Well, if NCAA can, so can they.
            Astros
            Texans
            Rockets
            Horns FBall
            Horns BBall
            Stars

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            • #7
              LiquorLogic
              Banned
              • Aug 2010
              • 712

              Re: Is Madden dying?


              Re: Is Madden dying?

              Madden isn't dead. It's asleep; it's tired. The Madden franchise is spent.
              ; the Madden franchise is drained. EA spent over a billion dollars trying to corner the market of licensed football games. The resources are limited for game development, so those resources have to be allocated to titles with viable competitors. As we all know, Madden has no competitors.
              Last edited by LiquorLogic; 10-31-2010, 03:56 PM.

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              • #8
                GAV
                Banned
                • Oct 2010
                • 49

                Re: Is Madden dying?


                Re: Is Madden dying?

                Originally posted by LiquorLogic
                Madden isn't dead. It's asleep; it's tired. The Madden franchise is spent.
                ; the Madden franchise is drained. EA spent over a billion dollars trying to corner the market of licensed football games. The resources are limited for game development, so those resources have to be allocated to titles with viable competitors. As we're all aware of, Madden has no competitors.
                The reason it isn't doing as well as it should is because the game just doesn't blow our minds anymore. The only way it will blow our minds is if the game finds ways to add new levels of depth and realism to the franchise.

                Right now, a big complaint is that some players can stop the run using quarters. The reason they can do that is because regardless of size, defenders either get blocked or don't get blocked - making speed the most important attribute. In the real NFL, if an O-lineman can get to a DB in space - if he can complete the block, he won't just engage with him and dance. He'll knock him down and look for the next victim. Likewise, WRs don't make good FBs because they get smacked aside easily by linebackers. This aspect of football is nonexistant in Madden right now. If it were a part of it, no one would match-up against bigger running with a quarters defense. It just wouldn't be a good tactic.

                Likewise, tackling is a huge part of NFL football - but it holds just a very small place in Madden. If they fix it by adding realism, rather than removing features that can be exploited, there will be fewer exlpoits and more options for players to be creative with.


                Pro-Tak added no extra depth or realism to the franchise. Locomotion is simply more spots to implement more canned animations. Neither feature moved the brand forward or blew our minds as gamers.

                Its time to add features that make the game feel deeper and more intuitive - and its past time where the game starts making changes that aren't just applicable - but applicable and realistic.

                Comment

                • #9
                  Eski33
                  MVP
                  • Jun 2004
                  • 1299

                  Re: Is Madden dying?


                  Re: Is Madden dying?

                  If Madden had a great presentation package, most people would enjoy it more. I read how 2K is the best game ever. It is only remembered as such because of presentation and all the extras the game had, it certainly wasn't for gameplay as it hosted a number of flaws.

                  Madden is getting more attention than ever because it is the lone NFL licensed product. I personally thought Madden 10 was awesome however this year EA did what it does best -- Remove options and presentation items.

                  What EA needs to do with its exclusivity is:

                  1) Develop some sort of presentation package that includes highlights and scores from around the league. The Extra Point was bare bones but a great starting block...Too bad it was removed.

                  2) All uniforms ever worn by NFL clubs AND done accurately

                  3) Classic stadiums

                  4) Get with the guys who did NCAA to work on run blocking animations...

                  5) Fix the player models...

                  6) Fix lighting...No dynamic lighting? No dynamic weather?

                  Madden 11 is in no means a terrible game. I think the leap that NCAA 11 took put Madden under the spotlight as to the number of things missing. NCAA's online dynasty is a huge reason the game has a big following along with the ability to follow your OD online by going through a website.

                  I personally feel that this year's game did very little to improve over last year and people are getting tired of paying $60 for roster updates, especially in this economy. I hope the Madden team does what it can to bring the franchise back....
                  What?

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    EdgeCrusher
                    Rookie
                    • Nov 2002
                    • 95

                    Re: Is Madden dying?


                    Re: Is Madden dying?

                    If you're truly going for the "blow our minds" type of impact, the entire engine needs to be overhauled..Maybe not so much overhauled as in, torn down, rebuilt from scratch. The blocking schemes and tackling you want to see in the game will not happen with the engine this gen runs on.

                    What EA needs to do, but they won't because of contract and cash-cow status that this game is, is pull an NBA Elite.Don't release a new Madden next year, instead focus on rebuilding the core engine, and give Madden 13 a 2 year dev. cycle. Next year just give out a roster update, call it a day.And spend 18-24 months giving gamers the Madden that we all want.
                    Last edited by EdgeCrusher; 10-31-2010, 03:39 PM. Reason: spelling

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Dog
                      aka jnes12/JNes__
                      • Aug 2008
                      • 11846

                      Re: Is Madden dying?


                      Re: Is Madden dying?

                      I just tried to play a game of Madden just now against the CPU for the first time in a while, and I couldn't even finish it. The game is just so "blah" to me now. I have more fun making videos with it than actually playing it. I'm sorry but I'm not spending $60 to make videos next year, I'm gonna have to play it first before I buy it
                      Eagles | Phillies | Sixers | Flyers
                      PSN: JNes__

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        LiquorLogic
                        Banned
                        • Aug 2010
                        • 712

                        Re: Is Madden dying?


                        Re: Is Madden dying?

                        Originally posted by GAV
                        [B][B]The reason it isn't doing as well as it should is because the game just doesn't blow our minds anymore. The only way it will blow our minds is if the game finds ways to add new levels of depth and realism to the franchise.
                        The reason why Madden doesn't blow our minds any more ,by adding new levels of depth and realism, is because all the money is spent on the huge licensing fee and marketing. Gaming development, across multi-platforms, is expensive. It usually costs between 18-28 million to develop a video game. You also have to take marketing into account; EA spent 10 million dollars promoting Madden 09.



                        It takes money to develop a quality football game.
                        Last edited by LiquorLogic; 10-31-2010, 08:08 PM.

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                        • #13
                          GAV
                          Banned
                          • Oct 2010
                          • 49

                          Re: Is Madden dying?


                          Re: Is Madden dying?

                          Originally posted by jnes12eaglesfan
                          I just tried to play a game of Madden just now against the CPU for the first time in a while, and I couldn't even finish it. The game is just so "blah" to me now. I have more fun making videos with it than actually playing it. I'm sorry but I'm not spending $60 to make videos next year, I'm gonna have to play it first before I buy it
                          They actually cut into 11's development time to get both teams working on 12 for a short time because they are afraid that the impending lockout will kill the brand.

                          Madden 12 will be the best game they could give us. The problem is the "practical fix" mindset of the guys in charge. They need to fix things realistically as well as practically.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            MattIntellect
                            MVP
                            • May 2009
                            • 2236

                            Re: Is Madden dying?


                            Re: Is Madden dying?

                            Using GamePlan for Franchise and Online games keep me playing, along with the improved locomotion. I haven't played a "next-gen" or "current-gen" Madden this long (almost November) in about five years.
                            -Matt

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              GAV
                              Banned
                              • Oct 2010
                              • 49

                              Re: Is Madden dying?


                              Re: Is Madden dying?

                              I've conditioned myself to never question anyone's gameplan. It's probably the one thing that has helped me most in competitive games. The game is what it is and if I'm playing it, I'm not playing some pretend game of what I think it should be - but playing the game how it is designed. I'm not the best player, but I have a shot to beat him if we play. This mindset is the reason why.

                              I broke a finger that requires surgery a short time ago and it has given me a chance to step away from the game and see it clearly for a while. I've not only found what I think is most wrong with the game, I've come up with an applicable fix that would make the game deeper and more realistic. Pretty awesome if you ask me.

                              My hope is that they actually add this stuff in. I'm not looking for anything beyond Madden 12 being great so I can pick it up at midnight and play it all year long.

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