Why Limit Gamers?

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  • RaychelSnr
    Executive Editor
    • Jan 2007
    • 4845

    #1

    Why Limit Gamers?


    Let me state before I delve into the rest of this article that I believe Madden is a good but not great game. I'm by no means what most people would call a "bonafide full time Madden basher" and I don't feel the need to excessively bash EA Sports at every turn when it comes to their premiere football game.

    In fact, Ian Cummings is one of the best game designers out there in our community and I kind of feel the need to apologize in advance -- mainly because the Madden team is far from the only group who limit gamers experience.

    But yet, they're today's example. A line in today's post from Ian Cummings caught my eye and I must vent and ask some very important questions to anyone working on sports gaming development these days:

    "There are countless "cheesing" things that the user can do like dropping your player ratings right before the off-season, signing him to the cheapest deal possible, and then setting him back"

    To that I must counter with: Who cares if Joe America cheeses in their single player franchise? Isn't that what video games are for? Creating an alternate reality you enjoy?

    And furthermore, who cares if Joe America and his friends were to do that with their online franchise? What gives a game designer the right to limit the experience gamers want to have with your creation? Why are rules arbitrarily created to force players to play how you feel they should? You can easily customize the rulesets to allow for this type of tinkering by the commissioner in online franchises.

    But really I have to ask again, who cares if someone wants to cheese in their franchise? Why hide anything at all when it comes to ratings? Why not allow users to allow certain ratings to be displayed or not, making franchise mode as easy or as hard as they feel it should be? If someone wants to cheat, LET THEM CHEAT!

    The customer is always right, right?

    I've said it countless times over the years, and I'll always continue to say it to every game designer who reads this site: if you purposefully limit the experience of the gamer, then you are limiting their enjoyment of your product and lessening the chance they'll return next time.

    The Madden team is the only team who does this. Every team and every company is guilty to a certain extent. I think one of the main reasons is that there is a hidden fear that users won't buy the next game if you can customize the current game to perfection.

    But that sounds like a reason to make material improvements year over year to me.

    I'll continue this song and dance forever. Quit limiting gamers for no reason, give them the keys. You might be shocked what a dedicated community can do for a game.
    OS Executive Editor
    Check out my blog here at OS. Add me on Twitter.
  • Blitzburgh
    Pro
    • Sep 2003
    • 793

    #2
    I agree but didn't they say the reason they can't give full access is because the game crashes and is not stable? I don't think you need to continue your "song and dance forever" now, since there is your answer.

    Comment

    • jenglund
      Rookie
      • Apr 2004
      • 229

      #3
      I agree. I remember "cheesing" when I could put past players on my team, like Barry Sanders with the Madden Cards back in 2001 or something. Heck, it was fun. I don't play that way anymore, but I do want options.

      A lot of us like to maintain a franchise that resembles the real season. All I really want to do is be able to tweak ratings during the franchise as real players rise and fall, make the appropriate trades, and force injuries on players who get hurt in real life. Then, from week to week, I just play my games and see how it all turns out with those parameters adjusted.

      The other option is that we can have a franchise that somehow gets updated as they release roster updates.
      Playing:
      NBA 2K23 on PS5, Red Dead Redemption II, World of Outlaws, MLB The Show 22

      Comment

      • RaychelSnr
        Executive Editor
        • Jan 2007
        • 4845

        #4
        Originally posted by Blitzburgh
        I agree but didn't they say the reason they can't give full access is because the game crashes and is not stable? I don't think you need to continue your "song and dance forever" now, since there is your answer.
        The first reason wasn't listed as making the game unstable -- just it was 'cheesing'. That's not cool.

        The other problems are there because the design of the game has determined that there are limits which you cannot cross. It's a design flaw, not a software limitation.
        OS Executive Editor
        Check out my blog here at OS. Add me on Twitter.

        Comment

        • Hova57
          MVP
          • Mar 2008
          • 3754

          #5
          Re: Why limit gamers?

          yea Ian did give a reason why, but also there is a sense of non control especially with sliders. you could put NBA 10 in right now. you can control the sensitivity of air collison fouls,cpu frequency stuff. NHL you can anything in that game, how fast the puck goes, how much you want the cpu to assist you . i understand what chris is saying

          Comment

          • SHAKYR
            MVP
            • Nov 2003
            • 1795

            #6
            MMChrisS, this is why I like Operation Sports!
            I agree with this post.
            Poe is an advocate for realistic boxing videogames.

            Comment

            • Hooe
              Hall Of Fame
              • Aug 2002
              • 21554

              #7
              I fully agree with the premise of this article, and further would like to see the offline customization aspects of Madden expanded beyond editing rosters at any time. Let us create and edit our own playbooks, complete with custom formations and route combinations. Let us edit coaches and coaching staffs. Let us edit AI teams' playbooks and game plans (which should be assigned per-coach anyhow, I'm actually not sure how this works in M11 as I didn't play it much). Let us assign our own stadium sounds rather than having to use whatever EA puts on the soundtrack. Let us edit the incoming draft class during the in-season scouting periods. Heck, let us choose if we want the roof open or closed at Cowboys Stadium in franchise mode if we're playing as the Cowboys.

              Comment

              • bcruise
                Hall Of Fame
                • Mar 2004
                • 23274

                #8
                Re: Why limit gamers?

                Personally I think we have trophies and achievements (and the "rewards" that go with them) to blame for losing a lot of the customization aspect.

                Nice read.

                Comment

                • Blitzburgh
                  Pro
                  • Sep 2003
                  • 793

                  #9
                  Re: Why Limit Gamers?

                  Originally posted by MMChrisS
                  The first reason wasn't listed as making the game unstable -- just it was 'cheesing'. That's not cool.

                  The other problems are there because the design of the game has determined that there are limits which you cannot cross. It's a design flaw, not a software limitation.
                  Yeah- I agree. Most of the issues people have with the game are because of the design flaws which is what they keep building of off it seems.

                  Comment

                  • GrandMaster B
                    Rookie
                    • Nov 2004
                    • 469

                    #10
                    That's why I voted for a complete re-design of the game. The way it is made now limits the consumers of options and experiences.
                    Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/GMBBrian
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                    Comment

                    • roadman
                      *ll St*r
                      • Aug 2003
                      • 26339

                      #11
                      Re: Why Limit Gamers?

                      I'd rather have the developers over here discussing it and taking our considerations and suggestions vs not being here at all and making their own decisions until the game comes out.

                      I do agree with the article, the more customization the better, no doubt.
                      Last edited by roadman; 11-22-2010, 06:57 PM.

                      Comment

                      • bhurst99
                        All Star
                        • Aug 2003
                        • 9137

                        #12
                        Agree 100 per cent. The more customization you give the user the better. Bcruse makes a good point about trophies and achievements possibily having an effect on customization.
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                        Comment

                        • Artman22
                          MVP
                          • Jul 2006
                          • 4984

                          #13
                          Great read. The main objective of this article is to show EA that sports gamers don't want limitations on their games, and I comepletey agree with this article. Give your consumer more options so we can do as we please with the game.
                          NBA2K is the standard of sports games period.

                          Comment

                          • ryan36
                            7 dirty words...
                            • Feb 2003
                            • 10139

                            #14
                            Re: Why Limit Gamers?

                            Originally posted by Art1bk
                            Great read. The main objective of this article is to show EA that sports gamers don't want limitations on their games, and I comepletey agree with this article. Give your consumer more options so we can do as we please with the game.
                            Exactly. Great article Chris.

                            Comment

                            • Palo20
                              MVP
                              • Dec 2006
                              • 3908

                              #15
                              I agree with the premise of the article but I think you're missing Ian's point. He went on to say that the "cheesy" exploits cause stability issues and that won't fly with Sony and Microsoft.

                              I didn't see any implication that Ian was against allowing "user cheesiness" as long as it doesn't break the game and look bad to the people who approve the game.
                              Twitter: @Palo50
                              @PFF_Steve

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