Timing and the CPU Passing Game

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  • Palo20
    MVP
    • Dec 2006
    • 3908

    #1

    Timing and the CPU Passing Game

    The CPU QB has no real sense of timing in the passing game. Routes such as Slants, Outs, Curls, and others are generally supposed to be thrown with perfect timing.

    Couple of Issues:

    --The CPU QB ALWAYS drifts to the right in the pocket in both Madden and NCAA making for some very awkward moments in the pocket. Sometimes this leads to off balance throws, or makes a simple throw to the left much more difficult because the QB has just moved farther from the target. Also results in LEs generally becoming better sack artists than REs. I know this is a known issue by EA, but it needs to be fixed.

    --WRs don't work to get open on certain routes, curls in particular. The curl/flat plays are a great example of the WRs running their routes, and then just standing there, not working to get open. Since the CPU QB does not throw the curl on time, the WR often just stands there and the CB just stands behind the WR. The curl/flat is often one of the oddest plays in the game against the CPU.

    --The CPU QB has very little idea of when to use touch in the passing game. Out route are thrown as lobs and "Go" routes are thrown as bullets. The "Go" routes are often thrown after the WRs are 40-50 yards downfield instead of being thrown with some arc trying to lead the WR.

    --The CPU QB has no "progression" and generally has no idea who his best players are. The CPU QB is basically trained to just know when WRs are open, regardless of who he is. That's why we see so many throws to the slot and TE in both Madden and NCAA. They generally uncover quicker than the outside WRs, so they get the ball more often. The CPU QB needs to understand if he has a stud outside WR and he needs to get him the ball. We also see way too many throws to the FB in the flat that are lobbed with the FB just waiting for the ball. Some kind of progression and/or general awareness of the team's personnel needs to be added.

    --The CPU QB often has no idea he is throwing a screen pass and throws it WAY too late.

    Couple Examples:

    <iframe title="YouTube video player" class="youtube-player" type="text/html" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/vfGK2sStOA0" frameborder="0" allowFullScreen></iframe>

    The Stick Route Animation needs to be quicker.

    The stick route is clearly and NFL staple but it is not well timed up with the QB's drop. The TE/WR takes way too long to turn around and find the ball. The stick is generally thrown right on time in real life and when it is thrown on time in Madden, the TE/WR is never ready to catch the ball.

    Also, the stick route is generally not just run the same way every time. It is often run as an option route where the WR/TE can turn or drift depending on the defense.

    <a href="http://s1130.photobucket.com/albums/m537/Palo20/?action=view&amp;current=Stick-1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m537/Palo20/Stick-1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

    <iframe title="YouTube video player" class="youtube-player" type="text/html" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/TRJDMVVnvF4" frameborder="0" allowFullScreen></iframe>

    Twitter: @Palo50
    @PFF_Steve
  • Jarodd21
    Hall Of Fame
    • Dec 2010
    • 10556

    #2
    Re: Timing and the CPU Passing Game

    I agree with almost everything your saying because alot of that does happen. But what level are you playing on? I noticed if your playing on an all-pro level the CPU tends to lob the ball more and wait too long before they throw the deep ball and on an all-madden level there more precise with there passing both with the short and deep passing and the get the ball off quicker on screens. But your making a lot of good points that EA do need to take a look at. Especially the CPU rolling to the right all the time to throw the ball. That is the worst..
    https://forums.operationsports.com/f...n-sliders.html

    PSN: Jarodd21

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    • Palo20
      MVP
      • Dec 2006
      • 3908

      #3
      Originally posted by Jarodd21
      I agree with almost everything your saying because alot of that does happen. But what level are you playing on? I noticed if your playing on an all-pro level the CPU tends to lob the ball more and wait too long before they throw the deep ball and on an all-madden level there more precise with there passing both with the short and deep passing and the get the ball off quicker on screens. But your making a lot of good points that EA do need to take a look at. Especially the CPU rolling to the right all the time to throw the ball. That is the worst..
      I'm referring to All Pro level because it's supposed to be the most realistic level of Madden.
      Twitter: @Palo50
      @PFF_Steve

      Comment

      • Jarodd21
        Hall Of Fame
        • Dec 2010
        • 10556

        #4
        Re: Timing and the CPU Passing Game

        Originally posted by Palo20
        I'm referring to All Pro level because it's supposed to be the most realistic level of Madden.
        Ok well thats why your having that problem then. Try some all-madden level sliders and you won't have some of those problems your seeing. They make the CPU QB play like that to make the game easier for people on all-pro. There's nothing realistic about the game play on all-pro at all. Too much high scoring form the USER if your a decent player. Its more for beginners or for people who haven't played the game for a long time in my opinion.

        But like I said you still make alot of good points that needs to be addressed by EA anyway. Some of that still happens on all-madden level sliders. But the CPUs QB definitely has better touch on the ball on deep routes and doesn't throw too many of those slow lob up passes your mentioning like it does on all-pro. Also the CPU finds the best WR on the field most of the time on an all-madden slider. He isn't just checking down to the slot WR or TE like your experiencing. Try one of the all-madden sliders out and you will see the difference.
        https://forums.operationsports.com/f...n-sliders.html

        PSN: Jarodd21

        Comment

        • RGiles36
          MVP
          • Jan 2008
          • 3960

          #5
          Re: Timing and the CPU Passing Game

          Originally posted by Palo20
          --The CPU QB has no "progression" and generally has no idea who his best players are. The CPU QB is basically trained to just know when WRs are open, regardless of who he is. That's why we see so many throws to the slot and TE in both Madden and NCAA. They generally uncover quicker than the outside WRs, so they get the ball more often. The CPU QB needs to understand if he has a stud outside WR and he needs to get him the ball. We also see way too many throws to the FB in the flat that are lobbed with the FB just waiting for the ball. Some kind of progression and/or general awareness of the team's personnel needs to be added.
          This is the only one I'd disagree with, at least in my experiences. I'd say that since M10, the CPU offense has made better use of their star players. If I play against Arizona as an example, I know that many passes are going into Fitzgerald's direction (provided he's in some position to make a play).
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          • shttymcgee
            Pro
            • Jul 2005
            • 744

            #6
            Re: Timing and the CPU Passing Game

            Good job, Palo. Timing is an aspect that definitely needs to be addressed. Not only does the CPU do a bad job of throwing the ball on time, but many routes in the playbooks are not run at right depth, thus making it nearly impossible to time them correctly.

            Comment

            • Jarodd21
              Hall Of Fame
              • Dec 2010
              • 10556

              #7
              Re: Timing and the CPU Passing Game

              Originally posted by rgiles36
              This is the only one I'd disagree with, at least in my experiences. I'd say that since M10, the CPU offense has made better use of their star players. If I play against Arizona as an example, I know that many passes are going into Fitzgerald's direction (provided he's in some position to make a play).
              I agree with you the best WR always gets the ball on whatever team I'm playing. The CPU plays so dumb on all-pro they probably do throw it to whoever. I don't have this problem. But I agree with alot of other things he's trying to point out but all-pro is the reason he's experience some of those things he mentioned especially those slow lob up passes on out routes and throws to the fullback.
              https://forums.operationsports.com/f...n-sliders.html

              PSN: Jarodd21

              Comment

              • mjhyankees
                MVP
                • Dec 2007
                • 1572

                #8
                Re: Timing and the CPU Passing Game

                Originally posted by Palo20
                I'm referring to All Pro level because it's supposed to be the most realistic level of Madden.
                I'd have to disagree with this statement...all madden (with good sliders) feels way more real. All pro feels like an arcade game to me....and online at all pro? It seems the guy that throws the first incomplete pass losses! The Qb's almost never miss and regularly complete 85% of their passes. Try all madden...I've not seem much of what you are having problems with and the ones' I've seen have been few and far between.
                "I'd rather lose to the cpu with realistic stats than win with ridiculous stats."

                If interested these are my Madden 12 sliders: http://www.operationsports.com/forum...dden-12-a.html

                Comment

                • Palo20
                  MVP
                  • Dec 2006
                  • 3908

                  #9
                  Re: Timing and the CPU Passing Game

                  Originally posted by mjhyankees
                  I'd have to disagree with this statement...all madden (with good sliders) feels way more real. All pro feels like an arcade game to me....and online at all pro? It seems the guy that throws the first incomplete pass losses! The Qb's almost never miss and regularly complete 85% of their passes. Try all madden...I've not seem much of what you are having problems with and the ones' I've seen have been few and far between.
                  Well according to the developers, the game is intended to be most realistic at All Pro. It's also the default online difficulty. That's why I referenced issues I've seen at that level.

                  I understand that sliders fix some of this stuff.
                  Twitter: @Palo50
                  @PFF_Steve

                  Comment

                  • Jarodd21
                    Hall Of Fame
                    • Dec 2010
                    • 10556

                    #10
                    Re: Timing and the CPU Passing Game

                    Originally posted by Palo20
                    Well according to the developers, the game is intended to be most realistic at All Pro. It's also the default online difficulty. That's why I referenced issues I've seen at that level.

                    I understand that sliders fix some of this stuff.
                    Wow did they actually say that? You can instantly tell the difference in game play from all-pro and all-madden. I put one of my friends on all-pro who hasn't played Madden in years and he dominated easy. I had to start tweaking the sliders up a little bit for him to get a little bit of a challenge untill he was ready for my all-madden sliders.

                    All-pro is terrible if your a decent player. Most of the problems your saying up there is the cause of all-pro.. Wish they would let you play ranked games online on all-madden. All-pro helps out alot of scrubs who aren't good survive online because of the all-pro game play. All-pro is the problem.
                    https://forums.operationsports.com/f...n-sliders.html

                    PSN: Jarodd21

                    Comment

                    • youALREADYknow
                      MVP
                      • Aug 2008
                      • 3635

                      #11
                      Re: Timing and the CPU Passing Game

                      You all are mistaking these two words: challenging and realistic.

                      All-Pro was designed to be the more realistic mode. Player interactions based upon ratings and not psychic AI.

                      All-Madden was designed to be the more challenging mode.

                      Ideally, one should be able to play on All-Pro and tweak sliders to get a realistic AND challenging experience. Unfortunately this game is light years from being ideal.

                      Also, I don't see how any of this relates to the original post. The CPU passing game is flawed in every possible mode. Just because you can achieve Robo QB in All-Madden does not mean the CPU has a realistic passing game. It merely means that CPU QB's find open receivers unrealistically fast. Again, let's not mistake a challenge for being realistic.

                      Comment

                      • Jarodd21
                        Hall Of Fame
                        • Dec 2010
                        • 10556

                        #12
                        Re: Timing and the CPU Passing Game

                        Originally posted by youALREADYknow
                        You all are mistaking these two words: challenging and realistic.

                        All-Pro was designed to be the more realistic mode. Player interactions based upon ratings and not psychic AI.

                        All-Madden was designed to be the more challenging mode.

                        Ideally, one should be able to play on All-Pro and tweak sliders to get a realistic AND challenging experience. Unfortunately this game is light years from being ideal.

                        Also, I don't see how any of this relates to the original post. The CPU passing game is flawed in every possible mode. Just because you can achieve Robo QB in All-Madden does not mean the CPU has a realistic passing game. It merely means that CPU QB's find open receivers unrealistically fast. Again, let's not mistake a challenge for being realistic.
                        There pretty challenging and realistic to me with a few minor tweaks that can made to make it realistic for yourself. All-Pro provides neither. I get great stats and results from my games. If EA said all-pro was meant for more of a realistic game play they lied. All-pro is the same super easy mode its been for years and will always be like that in my opinion and I will continue to skip right by it and go to all-madden like I've always done.

                        This does relate to it because most of the problems he said he's having it is a result of playing on all-pro. CPU on all-madden does more then find the open WR they find the best WR and the CPU makes fast reads and more accurate throws on slants, out routes, curls, and deep throw timing compared to the slow lob up passes, inaccurate throws, and the QB just waiting for the WR to get 40-50yds down the field before he finally makes a late throw like they do on all-pro. It makes the game more of a chess match and you have to pick the right plays to compete.

                        Off course some of what he saying can be better because you still occassionally get some of those problems on all-madden level sliders but its not as bad as it is on all-pro. Thats all I was trying to say.
                        https://forums.operationsports.com/f...n-sliders.html

                        PSN: Jarodd21

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                        • TitanUP2
                          Rookie
                          • Jan 2011
                          • 112

                          #13
                          Re: Timing and the CPU Passing Game

                          Great post Palo. I have noticed this as well. It pops up about 3 times a game for me. Reciever will be wide open on an out route and the cpu waits till they get to about two yards from the side line before they throw it. Every time its an incomplete. It sucks because I probaly could have at at least 2 losses from the cpu not being able to get a first down or a touchdown on a 2 minute drill to win the game.

                          It's just one of the many little things that aggrivates you about Madden.

                          Comment

                          • adembroski
                            49ers
                            • Jul 2002
                            • 5829

                            #14
                            Re: Timing and the CPU Passing Game

                            Nice thread, thank you.
                            There are two types of people on OS: Those who disagree with me, and those who agree.

                            The first kind is wrong. The second is superfluous.

                            The only difference between reality and fiction is that fiction needs to be credible.
                            -Mark Twain.

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